News   Nov 22, 2024
 655     1 
News   Nov 22, 2024
 1.2K     5 
News   Nov 22, 2024
 3.1K     8 

VIA Rail

You continuously ignore the benefits of serving KW with the KW alignment - plus the immense benefits of the pearson connection in your repeated attempts to get the London trains to continue on their existing primary routes through Brantford and Burlington.

The Brantford route is more direct - but given that you have to service both London and KWC-G with effective rail services, it makes more sense to run it on a single line rather than two separate routes. Especially since the singular line will service London-Waterloo, London-Guelph, London-Pearson trips, on top of London-Toronto.

The Brantford route additionally uses tons of freight tracks. Kitchener alignment is freight-free. A huge part of HFR is shifting VIA off of freight lines - thus the Peterborough alignment.

If HSR dies and is replaced with HFR 2.0, I fully expect it to retain the Kitchener alignment.

Also the Brantford bypass would only save about 3-4 minutes in travel times. It's not a huge difference.


So why is KW so special? Any improved HFR via KW from London means much worse service to Hamilton. Hamilton is a far more important city than KW and has connections to Niagara and Buffalo while KW has no connections to anywhere. KW is already getting all day 2-way GO service so it seems to me to be just a competing line.

As for Pearson, the reality is that relatively few Londoners use it and almost no one from Windsor. Windsorites have a small but decent airport but any major destination they need to go is done via Detroit. London airport is bigger and has service to every part of the country, all sun destinations, and American airlines serves the city to the key hub of Chicago O'Hare. KW certainly need Pearson as it has no significant airport but again it will be served by GO all day with a Malton stop.
 
^We can have more than passenger rail line. Upgrading the line through Kitchener has no impact on service to Hamilton.

If you’re going to build HSR, the highest ridership is actually in the “commute zone” if you will. This would be Toronto-London, Ottawa-Montreal and Montreal-Quebec City.

There’s an argument to be made that the first HSR line should actually be Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City. With probably Toronto-Kitchener-London a close competitor.

This is why I hope VIA can "knit" a line together that marries basic service where necessary (Toronto-Ottawa), with speed where justified (Ottawa-Montreal-Quebec City and Toronto-Kitchener-London), by working with the respective provincial government and possibly the private sector to get there.
The studies have always shown that the Toronto-Montreal section would perform the best, with the others lagging behind. When it comes to the other sections, an argument could be made that the Kitchener/London route would perform better than the Quebec City route. It has a higher population in a shorter distance, serves Pearson, and can build on upgrades that are happening to Kitchener anyway. It's hard to tell though because it's always been lumped in with the section to Windsor.
 
Any improved HFR via KW from London means much worse service to Hamilton.

And? VIA is not all that relevant to Hamilton. GO is. And GO is expanding.

Hamilton is a far more important city than KW

Says who?

As for Pearson, the reality is that relatively few Londoners use it and almost no one from Windsor. Windsorites have a small but decent airport but any major destination they need to go is done via Detroit. London airport is bigger and has service to every part of the country, all sun destinations, and American airlines serves the city to the key hub of Chicago O'Hare.

And Pearson wants that business and wants to do while reducing the number of slots used on puddle jumpers. If it was actual HSR, with hourly service, I think commercial air service in London would all but be finished.
 
If it was actual HSR, with hourly service, I think commercial air service in London would all but be finished.

And airlines would be thrilled provided they're given a standard commission on ticket sales (so they can book full trips).
 
Because there's no business case for it. Our Prairies are sparsely populated. Several cities can barely support mainline air service. There's no case to build any sort of real rail service anywhere out west with the exception of Calgary-Edmonton (with possible extensions a bit beyond).

I doubt anyone would suggest HSR or even HFR west of Ontario. However, daily bi directional service to major cities such as Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, Regina, and Winnipeg is a reasonable thing.
 
I doubt anyone would suggest HSR or even HFR west of Ontario.

See the post I was responding to:

You may be right about it crossing trough the mountains (although it is possible to build kilometers-long tunnels but it just costs a lot of money), but why not then make a connection on all the flat land each other province has? Plus plane tickets do cost quite a bit depending on where you are going?


However, daily bi directional service to major cities such as Vancouver, Edmonton, Calgary, Saskatoon, Regina, and Winnipeg is a reasonable thing.

Define reasonable. As a tourist train? Sure. As a community support service for tiny rural communities? I guess. Beyond that? I fail to see any real purpose. The average person is not going to take the Canadian to actually travel somewhere. There's planes, cars and buses for that.

Also, I think there's a solid case for one corridor that's west of Ontario: Calgary-Edmonton. A better business case than say the bit from London to Windsor or from Montreal to Quebec City.
 
Generic for this string and the HSR one, but of interest to both:
upload_2018-10-17_8-45-43.png

Paddington shut after Hitachi train on test run tears down power lines
Blow to multi-billion pound roll-out of Hitachi vehicles


Commuters faced travel chaos across southern England today after a high-speed train tore down overhead wires outside one of Britain’s busiest stations.

The state-of-the-art train, operated by the government contractor Hitachi, was on a test run when it caused extensive damage to 500 metres of overhead lines last night.

Paddington Station, which caters for about 90,000 passengers a day, was closed during the morning rush hour today and all mainline rail services from central London to Heathrow airport were cancelled.

The disruption caused mayhem across the Great Western Railway (GWR), which serves Bristol, Cardiff and the West Country, with a significantly reduced service across the network and all trains terminating at Reading.

Some passengers were stranded on trains between Paddington — the country’s seventh busiest station — and Reading for several hours after the loss of power to the line.

Network Rail said that it expected to open two out of four train lines into Paddington by midday today, but warned that severe disruption would last until the end of the day.

The incident was blamed on one of the new generation of high-speed trains being built by Hitachi as a long-term replacement for trains used on the Great Western routes.

The train, a bi-mode class 802, designed for the Great Western route to Devon and Cornwall, was being tested on the line when it is believed to have caused damage to overhead cables near Ealing, west London.

The test train, which has not yet been delivered to GWR and was not carrying passengers at the time, was being operated between Hitachi’s London and Bristol depots. An investigation is underway as to how it pulled down the overhead cables.

It represents a further blow to Hitachi’s multi-billion pound roll-out of intercity trains on Britain’s busiest lines.
[...]
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/...halt-after-test-train-damages-wires-nl8glj3pl

In deference to Fair Use Doctrine and the London Times paywall, that's all I'll post. Any UK major pubs will have copy on it later. None that I can find at this moment.

The Class 800/1/2 have not been getting great reviews for a number of reasons. And now this...
Part of the problem is the present UK Gov't's fudge on fully electrifying the Great Western Mainline. Ontario take note! Hybrid spells *compromise* in many ways, and the present joke of a UK gov't is praying at the feet of the Hydrogen God as they light candles to its greatness...kaboom...

Note that this has not happened with any of the many other UK electric locos over the generations. Let me guess: This happened during a test to switch from diesel to electric power, and thus raising the pantograph at speed...

We'll see....

Update: Beeb has coverage up now: https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-england-london-45885867
 

Attachments

  • upload_2018-10-17_8-45-43.png
    upload_2018-10-17_8-45-43.png
    284 KB · Views: 627
Last edited:
politically impossible to exclude Montreal-Quebec if federally funded.
Why? Montreal is the important city in Quebec, both politically and economically.

If you exclude Quebec City, that means the federal funding goes towards:

~500km of new infrastructure in Ontario
vs
~50km of new infrastructure in Quebec, which can only be used to travel to Ontario.

Making HFR an Ontario-only service would be political suicide for the feds.
 
If you exclude Quebec City, that means the federal funding goes towards:

~500km of new infrastructure in Ontario
vs
~50km of new infrastructure in Quebec, which can only be used to travel to Ontario.

Making HFR an Ontario-only service would be political suicide for the feds.
There's also the very needed aspect of of participation by both Quebec and Ontario gov'ts in a regional scheme with VIA and ostensibly private investors, a crucial part of Infrastructure Bank involvement.

This translates to Toronto getting similar:
Infrastructure agency hands $1.28 billion loan to Montreal rail project
And it also translates to VIA, by forming a consortium with Que and Ont transit agencies, getting federally channeled investment through the InfraBank without it appearing to be regional favouritism. It will be based on a presented business case.
 
Define reasonable. As a tourist train? Sure. As a community support service for tiny rural communities? I guess. Beyond that? I fail to see any real purpose. The average person is not going to take the Canadian to actually travel somewhere. There's planes, cars and buses for that.

Also, its a single track most of the way, and CN really does not want any more passenger trains on the line.
 
Part of the issue with rail on the Prairies is the fact that those provinces have built a massive expressway system. Practically every town is on a divided 4 lane highway and driving is very easy (except in winter storms). Ontario's freeway/expressway system is a lot smaller per capita and our traffic congestion is on a whole other level. We have a lot more opportunity to shift the transportation balance away from driving.

If you exclude Quebec City, that means the federal funding goes towards:

~500km of new infrastructure in Ontario
vs
~50km of new infrastructure in Quebec, which can only be used to travel to Ontario.

Making HFR an Ontario-only service would be political suicide for the feds.
What matters most is that Montreal is served, not how many kilometres of track are in each province. It would directly benefit millions of Quebecers. If selling it is a problem you could always promise Quebec City service in some future phase, and Ontario would probably contribute more than Quebec would.

Lots of big infrastructure projects that are specific to just one region get federal money. There are lots of reasons that HSR hasn't been built in the Corridor yet, but I think that regional jealousy is pretty low on the list.
 
If selling it is a problem you could always promise Quebec City service in some future phase, and Ontario would probably contribute more than Quebec would.

Lots of big infrastructure projects that are specific to just one region get federal money. There are lots of reasons that HSR hasn't been built in the Corridor yet, but I think that regional jealousy is pretty low on the list.
I guess that’s why Windsor put all its unconditional support behind the ousted liberal government’s High Speed Rail plans. No, wait:
Council concerned high speed rail will never make it to Windsor

[...]

Dilkens said that the power point shows that high speed rail is not planned for the city. He said he knows some may have a different understanding of the document, but he wanted to go public with his concerns.

"To me, that's codespeak for, 'This will never happen,'" he said.

"We know the section between Windsor and London is a section that will not be highly profitable on the high speed rail line, but it's a critical portion to make sure that all of Ontario is connected."

[...]

"There's 15 million people that high speed rail would make accessible to us," he said, adding that he believes ending the rail line in London would be a mistake. "We're always going to be the left out area."

Dilkens wants people to push politicians to make high-speed rail an election issue.

"We want to make sure that if there is high-speed rail moving forward in the province of Ontario that we're not a Phase 2 dotted line afterthought, that this is actually a commitment on the table from the government."
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/windsor/high-speed-rail-windsor-london-1.4652758

Don’t get me wrong: I agree that city officials should realize that any incremental improvement between A and B will also benefit all cities beyond B (provided B is on the way from A to them), but that’s not how HSR politics work in Canada; it’s all “Big Bang” theory: “There will be only one project, so you better make sure the project doesn’t depart without your city being officially part of its first stage, as you will otherwise be eternally stuck with whatever little you already have...!”
 
Last edited:
Hamilton is a far more important city than KW ...
Let's see - 2016 census puts one (City of Hamilton) at 537 thousand and the other (Region of Waterloo) at 535 thousand. Hmm, and 2006 says 505 thousand versus 478 thousand.

Well, Waterloo is certainly growing faster. But in terms of trip demand, I don't see that either is particularly more important - let alone "far" more important!
 

Back
Top