VIA Rail

[crs1026]

Nothing really new here, except when Railway Age comes out and criticises a railway it's a rare day - it's trade press, after all.

What’s holding up VIA’s Canadian?

- Paul

 

[steveintoronto]

Nothing really new here, except when Railway Age comes out and criticises a railway it's a rare day - it's trade press, after all.

What’s holding up VIA’s Canadian?

- Paul

Ed-in-Chief:

You think Amtrak has problems with long-distance train punctuality? VIA Rail Canada recently has been experiencing debilitating delays with the Canadian, its premier, first-class Toronto-Vancouver train, renowned for luxurious accommodations, excellent on-board service, and—oh yes—dining cars. But I’m not going to broach that subject just now.

[...]
Ouch!
https://www.railwayage.com/freight/whats-holding-up-vias-canadian/

 

[robmausser]

It will be ironic if running shorter trains, which gives more opportunity to use all available sidings, actually works better for CN. It will cost more in labour, but it will demonstrate how the rampant cost cutting of the last decade has actually harmed railway operational flexibility - which is what is hurting VIA so much on the transcontinental routes.

- Paul

Train automation will allow for shorter trains.

Will have to pay for less staff, no increase in labour.

 

[steveintoronto]

Time to revisit my claim for a 'rider' being attached to VIA's RFQ/RFP for new equipment that it be with a nation or bloc with no barriers.

FT reports (so as to be neutrally reported from an int'l perspective)

[...] Justin Trudeau, Canada’s prime minister, called the new tariffs “totally unacceptable” and made clear his offence at being labelled a national security threat to the US. “For 150 years, Canada has been America’s most steadfast ally . . . From the beaches of Normandy to the mountains of Afghanistan, we have fought and died together,” he said. “That Canada could be considered a national security threat to the United States is inconceivable.” Canada said it would target $12.8bn in imports from the US for retaliation including aluminium and steel but also everyday consumer goods such as dishwasher detergent. [...]

https://www.ft.com/content/7ba37aa2-64ac-11e8-a39d-4df188287fff

There's something far better, Justin, and that's to include the equivalent cost applied to Cdn rail equipment exports reciprocally to any imports made in the US. Siemens, for instance, would have to supply a price to ship trainsets from the EU to avoid added tariffs since Canada and the EU have already signed and implemented CETA, which guarantees *zero* tariffs exporting same either way across the Atlantic.

I've already quoted the CETA sections some months prior here.

How does CETA benefit Canadian infrastructure sector exporters?

• Under CETA, EU tariffs are eliminated on all originating products used in building and maintaining infrastructure such as: construction materials, power generating machinery, electrical equipment, rail products, infrastructure related ICT products and more.
• [...]

Government procurement

• Under CETA, Canada gains new access at the sub-central level (regions and municipalities to procurement by local contracting authorities, bodies governed by public law (e.g. hospitals, schools, academic institutions), European public utilities in the areas of gas, electricity, heat and water distribution as well as entities responsible for urban transit and railways. This includes procurement above specified value thresholds of professional services such as architecture and engineering as well as all construction services.

[...]

http://www.international.gc.ca/trad...treprise/sectors-secteurs/Infra.aspx?lang=eng

More detailed descriptions provided if requested. I call this *an opportunity* to steel (sic) the US' lunch by playing at their own game. The EU is already tallying what they will erect barriers on, and will only be too glad to shift orders and trade with Canada in lieu of US intransigence and outright bullying.

Addendum: Getting close:

[...]The list, which the federal government published online,also includes dozens of varieties of steel and aluminum products, including wire, beer kegs and railway tracks. [...]

https://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/can...er-and-dozens-of-other-u-s-products-1.3954094

 

[dowlingm]

I doubt the tariffs last long enough to affect a Siemens order, one way (Trump capitulates to DC free trade lobbyists) or the other (Canada folds as the impact on cross border trade becomes acute).

 

[steveintoronto]

I doubt the tariffs last long enough to affect a Siemens order, one way (Trump capitulates to DC free trade lobbyists) or the other (Canada folds as the impact on cross border trade becomes acute).

Siemens have some protection from Cdn import tariffs as they're in California, a very Democrat state, and so far, the tit-for-tat tariffs are aimed where they'll do maximum impact, Republican states, especially ones where they're close to swinging.

Of course, you might be right, this might be short-lived, but everyone is digging in for the long-haul. European biz press is livid. Something that even Siemens might not escape is the necessary reciprocity of cost of metals in any exports to Canada. Steel rails, as per on the list, are of course from states that voted heavily for Trump.

I do think Trudeau handled this appropriately. Of course it will hurt us, but there's no making sense with a madman, and CETA gives us an excellent opportunity to reduce our dependence on the US, just as we're on the verge of opening railway regulation that was based on the FRA model. Recognition of EC and UIC standards is in the CETA agreement. If Siemens did win the contract(s), and they were shipped from Europe, it would really sting the US.

 

[mdrejhon]

Siemens have some protection from Cdn import tariffs as they're in California, a very Democrat state, and so far, the tit-for-tat tariffs are aimed where they'll do maximum impact, Republican states, especially ones where they're close to swinging.

By golly, you're right! I hadn't noticed but looking closely, that's some really surgically targetted tariffs.

It's gonna hurt Hamilton plenty, though. The city is far more diversified than the early 90s. So hopefully not enough to derail our LRT.

 

[innsertnamehere]

I don't expect the tariffs will last long.

 

[steveintoronto]

I don't expect the tariffs will last long.

They didn't expect Trump to last long either...

Expectations count for little at this point, logistics alone dictate that we brace ourselves, that salvo was very damaging, the doubt is devastating for inward investment, (ironically, for the US too, a nation not as prepared as Canada to adapt to world markets, an argument in itself) so as much as militarily, this nation is warranted a lot of deserved criticism, in trade law, we are one of the best prepped nations in the world. And it's about to serve us well.

And our largest weapon in the arsenal right now? CETA.

It's gonna hurt Hamilton plenty, though. The city is far more diversified than the early 90s. So hopefully not enough to derail our LRT.

You're on to this, because you're at 'ground zero' for steel production, and are aware of the issues. This is a bit of a 'niche' for me, following trade law and permutations closely in the world press, especially EU and Brexit, a whole other discussion, and perhaps the mods might see fit, or you yourself, to start a 'trade' string here at UT.

This is an apt string for it, but it's far more than just VIA and the impending procurement. This *is* a war in terms of economic well-being.

I'm reminded of the saying regarding abused spouses: "How many times do you have to have the shit kicked out of you before you realize it's time to change things?"

Give in to Trump, and he'll keep abusing. There's irony in that companies like Siemens will be aghast at what Trump is pulling.

Perhaps we should export Doug Ford to Washington, and light the fuse..."Dear Donald..."

Addendum: This is a very important string, and @dowlingm had a good post or two on this, as well as others, @Urban Sky being another, although due to his fully disclosed position with VIA, he might be constrained in what he can share, but here's what a quick check on Siemens shows:

Siemens CEO on tariffs: US is the founder of free trade - YouTube
▶ 8:14

Mar 8, 2018 - Uploaded by Fox Business
Siemens CEO Joe Kaeser on President Trump's plans to impose ... SiemensCEO on tariffs: US is the ...

Siemens CEO: Why Trump's global trade approach is wrong
▶ 6:32
https://www.cnbc.com/.../siemens-ceo-why-trumps-global-trade-appr...
Mar 7, 2018
At CERAWeek in Houston, Joe Kaeser, Siemens Global AG CEO, discusses why he disagrees with the Trump ...

 

[kEiThZ]

I doubt the tariffs last long enough to affect a Siemens order, one way (Trump capitulates to DC free trade lobbyists) or the other (Canada folds as the impact on cross border trade becomes acute).

I don't expect the tariffs will last long.

Not only will they not last long, but as long as NAFTA is in effect, the government can't randomly lock out American bidders despite what some people think.

As much as I am not a fan of the idea, real leverage would come when Canada follows the same tact and invokes the national security exemption to lock Americans out of defence contracts. They aren't going to do it over trains.

We've already invoked national security exemptions in the past to prevent the sale of Canadian companies to American firms. Harper blocking the sale of MacDonald Dettwiler for example. Or standing instruction that all small arms ammunition for the CAF must be produced by Colt Canada, to ensure security of supply, despite US suppliers being cheaper. Locking the Americans out of shipbuilding in Canada, would do far more damage than losing a billion dollar train contract. And can be done without violating NAFTA at all.

I expect though, that Trump will capitulate. Especially when the countervailing duties start making swing state Republicans panic.

 

[steveintoronto]

Errr...the tariffs haven't even been put in place yet. And what Trump is enacting is not only in violation of Nafta in terms of misusing the 'National Security' clause, it's in violation of WTO, which is exactly why nations are appealing it to the WTO, an almost totally ineffective appeal at this time. The answer is tit-for-tat, albeit strategically applied, and utilizing exemplary agreements like CETA with other free-traders. And if the US wants to appeal that to the WTO, then let them, they'll not only lose, it will be a precedent against them. And the WTO is next on Trump's list. And he's already started.

Trump is breaking the WTO. Will China want to save it?

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Any updates on new trains?

The RFP will drop this month, with the goal of awarding and signing a contract in December.

I found this by Googleing, looks like the RFQ itself.

 

[M636RF]

So will we soon see a list of the manufacturers who responded?

 

[Streety McCarface]

So will we soon see a list of the manufacturers who responded?

Any bets on who has, and who people want it to be? My bids are for Siemens and their ACS/Charger locomotives.

 

[Streety McCarface]

Is their a dual mode acs/charger variant? Or is that the alp 45 dp

It may be possible, but it's more likely that they'll order both separately and interchange locomotives in electrified areas (like along the barrie corridor, the kitchener corridor eventually, and the Lakeshore corridor). For even shorter train journeys, they may just keep one of each on the train (ie Union to Niagra). The case for having electric locomotives will greatly increase if that rail deck park is ever built.