Allandale25
Senior Member
^ Just shows the challenge GO has to deal with for the lines they don't own.
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VIA Rail
- Thread starter ehlow
- Start date
dowlingm
Senior Member
A hell of a lot of diesel and staff time down the drain, if so.
robmausser
Senior Member
♪♫♬ Its the government wayyyyyyy ♪♫♬
Allandale25
Senior Member
Maybe CN required the tests before making a decision? Hard to put 100% of the blame on the government/VIA without having all of the information.
crs1026
Superstar
The Sarnia and Windsor lines both have recent CTC installs that had never seen an RDC consist. Those tests were essential to know how well the RDCs played with today's signalling.
There is also the "seen it with my own eyes" dynamic, especially since those RDC's have been rebuilt since their earlier use. And, only the oldest of old timers will remember seeing them in service back in the day. A test run is worth a thousand pages of consultants' reports.
- Paul
There is also the "seen it with my own eyes" dynamic, especially since those RDC's have been rebuilt since their earlier use. And, only the oldest of old timers will remember seeing them in service back in the day. A test run is worth a thousand pages of consultants' reports.
- Paul
micheal_can
Senior Member
What we realy need i a newly designed RDC type train that meets TC standards and is modern.
steveintoronto
Superstar
Careful Sonny....
I remember the phases of when you could load your own bike onto them, then when they started charging for it, then when their goons would insist that you pre-check the bikes and the apes throw them on the RDC in a pile....
My first visits outside of a car to the Niagra Region were by RDC and bike. Then it all turned to shid with VIA's (mis)management of bikes on trains. Also used to do the runs out to Port Hope and Cobourg, but that was on loco-hauled. (In fact, RDCs did do some service there, and to Havelock of course) I do even more distance now-days, albeit with an incredibly efficient machine and better nourished muscles. I long for the day when the European (and Amtrak) model of loading your own bike onto trains returns for VIA. (They claim their next tranche of new trainsets will allow that)
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cplchanb
Senior Member
+1.... i dont understand why so many people are so nostalgically obsessed with the rdcs. sure it was a great car but that was 50 years ago. Sure lets lobby for return of these routes but please dont tie in
an ancient piece of obsolesce as the key factor in the argument
crs1026
Superstar
I sure wrote that poorly, didn't I? ;-)
What I meant was - there is virtually no one remaining in CN management who has any first hand knowledge of RDC's or their operation. So no one to allay fears or speak authoritatively to risks (or lack thereof). Hence the need to educate today's managers with hands on experience.
I don't see the attachment as purely nostalgiac. The intellectual attraction is
- They still exist, with carbodies not yet past operability (although this may be stretching the point as the years go by) and roughly acceptable to TC
- They were successful in their day, and clearly don't wear out quickly
- Nothing developed since has surpassed them for reliability or operational performance
- They still meet today's performance specification
It was a simple design. Sometimes technology advances, but sometimes reengineering is just polish on a cannonball.
It's true that the design may be far from current and may not meet "new car" standards - eg accessibility, crew safety and comfort. Still, it would be an interesting exercise to compare the cost of building copies of the original RDC (with only strategic upgrades to address the modernity requirements), versus the cost of designing and qualifying a new car for the same performance spec. I suspect the RDC would be cheaper to build, and probably in the same cost ballpark to operate. The real showstoppers are likely the obsolete cab (in terms of crew safety, and ventilation), the steps, and maybe the procurement of the drive train.
- Paul
Fritter
Active Member
Philosophical question, would the Canadian still be the Canadian operating without the stainless steel equipment? That train set has become so iconic, it's hard to think of it operating in modern equipment.
steveintoronto
Superstar
lol...the saving grace is manifold. not least that I know you're only a couple of years different and that I keep cheating the clock. After years of Thyroid Cancer, I get back a fair amount of each dollar lost. Doctors are amazed at my rate of recovery on connective tissue and joints, as there's too much muscle for them to handle unless very carefully marshalled. (Cycling and swimming do that)
You make a series of good points, and there's actually a great parallel in aviation. The RDCs are like DC3s! Plus in Canada, there is no replacement for them save the Sharyos (UPX) which are no longer in production, and unlikely to be again. Not to mention that they've proven to be problematic themselves.
The replacement of RDCs (and there are hundreds, worldwide) is contingent on Transport Canada doing what the US has done, approve foreign models on a case by case basis. Until that time, the RDC is winner by virtue of no competition. And most existing ones now have new prime motors and drivetrains.
Same generation, technology and quality of build.
Fuel efficient they're not, they were light for their day, but heavy by today's standards. But they are very tough tractors...
Addendum: Reference to their being "tanks" is very apt:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budd_Rail_Diesel_Car
I'm not sure what the revamps have been on the VIA ones, just know that it's extensive, and probably double the power/tractive effort of what was replaced, but they are considered good candidates for rehab.
Frankly, I wouldn't be surprised to see them used in Halifax for commuter service as opposed to branch-line in Western Ontario.
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Admiral Beez
Superstar
A friend is moving to Port Hope so I looked at the VIA schedule, and noticed that VIA also serves Cobourg.
It surprises me that two stations 8 mins apart would both be served by VIA. It's akin to VIA from Union stopping at Main St. Station. However, perhaps the same train that serves Cobourg skips Port Hope, and vice versa?
It surprises me that two stations 8 mins apart would both be served by VIA. It's akin to VIA from Union stopping at Main St. Station. However, perhaps the same train that serves Cobourg skips Port Hope, and vice versa?
Fritter
Active Member
Port Hope only has a couple of trains a day stopping there. The majority VIA service is out of Cobourg.
crs1026
Superstar
The Port Hope VIA stop is mostly a commuter stop for Toronto passengers. Port Hope is enough of a bedroom community for there to be ridership for that.
You wouldn't find many commuters driving 8 miles east to Cobourg to catch a train west to Toronto, when they could be halfway to Oshawa in that amount of time. So the stop attracts enough passengers to be worth it to VIA. The trains that stop are milk runs, what's one more stop?
- Paul
You wouldn't find many commuters driving 8 miles east to Cobourg to catch a train west to Toronto, when they could be halfway to Oshawa in that amount of time. So the stop attracts enough passengers to be worth it to VIA. The trains that stop are milk runs, what's one more stop?
- Paul
MisterF
Senior Member
I don't see why not. The Flying Scotsman is still the Flying Scotsman with modern equipment. Same with the Glacier Express. OTOH, the Australian equivalent of the Canadian, the Indian Pacific, uses some pretty old rolling stock.