VIA Rail

[rbt]

I was thinking about the issues with Viarail and the Montreal tunnel, and the REM plan not allowing them to use the tunnel.

IIRC, exclusive use of the tunnel by REM is not a technical restriction. VIA (eventually) presented a plan that would have been technically feasible and affordable to implement as part of the HFR package.

CDPQ will most likely require a financial interest in VIAs plans before changing their mind over the use of what (is now) their asset.

 

[cplchanb]

On the subject of VIA's fleet, here is a Radio-Canada article discussing it from today. For those who don't speak/read French, I've translated some key items from the article:

VIA Rail remplacera 20 % de son parc de voitures d'ici 2024

• Twenty per cent of VIA Rail's fleet will be decommissioned within seven years. This is revealed in a document signed by federal Transport Minister Marc Garneau in response to a question from NDP MP Robert Aubin.
  
• VIA Rail has 495 cars and locomotives to service its Quebec City-Windsor corridor. Of these, 111 will need to be replaced gradually from 2018 until 2024.
  
• The article continues to discuss the High Frequency Rail project, but doesn't reveal any new information on a new corridor or fleet

En bref: VIA needs a new Corridor fleet, yesterday.

All talk no action is what im predicting. under this govt so far how many announcements were actually actioned to the end?

 

[SaugeenJunction]

^ any speculation on which type of coaches will be decommissioned? The Budd fleet?

I'd assume so, but VIA has a few contracts out right now to refurbish various elements of the HEP 2 cars. I've heard that it is actually the Renaissance cars (despite being "newish") which are on their last legs, due to them "rotting out" (rusting) from the bottom up.

 

[nfitz]

I'd assume so, but VIA has a few contracts out right now to refurbish various elements of the HEP 2 cars. I've heard that it is actually the Renaissance cars (despite being "newish") which are on their last legs, due to them "rotting out" (rusting) from the bottom up.

Some are issues ... but all of them?

I'd have assumed it was the LRC coaches, which I thought were approaching the end of their life, because of their aluminum frame.

I think we just nominated the entire fleet!

 

[smallspy]

• VIA Rail has 495 cars and locomotives to service its Quebec City-Windsor corridor. Of these, 111 will need to be replaced gradually from 2018 until 2024.

Nitpick: 495 vehicles is the total size of the fleet, not just the Corridor fleet. The equipment used in Corridor service is about 2/5ths of this number.

As for which cars need work the most....well....frankly, it's most of them. The Renaissance cars are suffering from major side sill corrosion. Only a quarter of the LRC cars got the major structural overhaul that was intended, and so the rest of them are living on borrowed time. The HEP2 cars are also suffering from side sill and bolster corrosion issues. The only cars that are in decent shape are the HEP1 cars, and even many of them are in need of a major interior refresh.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[SaugeenJunction]

Via Rail has taken a concrete step to making regional rail a reality (scroll to #3)

I'd love it if VIA was able to implement its Campbellton to Moncton, and Moncton to Halifax services they have talked about.

 

[steveintoronto]

Why not modify the REM plan to use mainline rail EMU's?

IIRC, exclusive use of the tunnel by REM is not a technical restriction. VIA (eventually) presented a plan that would have been technically feasible and affordable to implement as part of the HFR package.

CDPQ will most likely require a financial interest in VIAs plans before changing their mind over the use of what (is now) their asset.

rbt nailed it. VIA (and AMT's successor, I can never remember the latest acronyms) have shown all sorts of examples in Europe where both catenary supply, height, signalling and political persusasion can be addressed for mutual use. This isn't about engineering...which would be relatively easy. It's about power. And not the electrical kind. Quebeckers are going to end-up paying a massive price for this bungle. They've already had to write-off investment in heavy rail commuter rights of way.

In all fairness, they're not alone. Sydney Australia is doing much the same with their "Metro". I'll supply just one link to an article full of more links to expand on the debate:

Sound familiar?

[...]
Comment: This decision is a key turning point for Sydney’s rail system. The new tunnels will be too small for double deck trains and the new trains will be incompatible with the current network. It also introduces private sector operation and the conversion of existing infrastructure to both metro standards and private operation. Another fundamental change from the original MREP proposal is that instead of freeing up capacity on the existing network by connecting the Macarthur line to the new link, the conversion of the Bankstown line and the link via Sydenham to the CBD and the Harbour tunnel will in effect take over this role.
[...]

https://thestrategicweek.com/2017/04/24/sydney-metro-a-brief-guide-to-a-complex-history/

 

[MisterF]

rbt nailed it. VIA (and AMT's successor, I can never remember the latest acronyms) have shown all sorts of examples in Europe where both catenary supply, height, signalling and political persusasion can be addressed for mutual use. This isn't about engineering...which would be relatively easy. It's about power. And not the electrical kind. Quebeckers are going to end-up paying a massive price for this bungle. They've already had to write-off investment in heavy rail commuter rights of way.

In all fairness, they're not alone. Sydney Australia is doing much the same with their "Metro". I'll supply just one link to an article full of more links to expand on the debate:

Sound familiar?

https://thestrategicweek.com/2017/04/24/sydney-metro-a-brief-guide-to-a-complex-history/

I could be wrong but it doesn't look like Sydney will be making suburban lines terminate far from the city centre like Montreal is doing. Sydney is an interesting case because it's basically the opposite of Toronto. It has a hybrid regional network that provides rapid transit downtown but no metro lines while Toronto has a small metro network with a barebones commuter system. Sydney is building metro lines while Toronto is building RER (and subway and LRT of course). So they're becoming more similar but coming from opposite directions. I think it shows that they're both maturing into major world cities where there's no one size fits all transit solution.

 

[steveintoronto]

I could be wrong but it doesn't look like Sydney will be making suburban lines terminate far from the city centre like Montreal is doing. Sydney is an interesting case because it's basically the opposite of Toronto. It has a hybrid regional network that provides rapid transit downtown but no metro lines while Toronto has a small metro network with a barebones commuter system. Sydney is building metro lines while Toronto is building RER (and subway and LRT of course). So they're becoming more similar but coming from opposite directions. I think it shows that they're both maturing into major world cities where there's no one size fits all transit solution.

Analogy was meant for Montreal's Mont Royale Tunnel, and it's very close if you follow how VIA had been denied the use of the tunnel to reach Central Station, ditto AMT (or whatever they're now called).

Must run, more detail later.

Addendum:
See: http://w5.montreal.com/mtlweblog/?p=61144&cpage=1

 

[SaugeenJunction]

So this is new. I'd assume that this would essentially negate (ridershipwise, and politically) the Montreal-Quebec City portion of HFR, if it ever was to get built?

"Philippe Couillard souhaite un nouveau lien rapide Québec-Montréal"
"Quebec Wants To Build A Monorail From Montreal To Quebec City"

 

[Fritter]

Where have I've heard this before?

 

[jys]

So this is new. I'd assume that this would essentially negate (ridershipwise, and politically) the Montreal-Quebec City portion of HFR, if it ever was to get built?

"Philippe Couillard souhaite un nouveau lien rapide Québec-Montréal"
"Quebec Wants To Build A Monorail From Montreal To Quebec City"

This doesn't make any sense. Why build a monorail when there are so many other cheaper options. Monorails are only useful in urban areas where space is very limited. Anyways, I think a separate rail project in the Montreal-Quebec corridor would only help HFR.

 

[steveintoronto]

Last line from the article:
Another, more economic and expedient option would be a “high-frequency train” set up in collaboration with VIA Rail.

Indeed, but we're overlooking the most important 'aspect' (Pardon my French) "Faite d'emploi" ou "Faire Marcher":
http://www.bombardier.com/en/media/...-for-the-first-monorails-i.bombardiercom.html

Why stop at REM when even more ridiculous schemes can be financed with your money?

 

[dowlingm]

Hope Haligonians don't get too excited by the sight of RDCs testing. Look how long they have been testing around Sarnia and London, and how little seemed to come of that to date?

 

[robmausser]

Hope Haligonians don't get too excited by the sight of RDCs testing. Look how long they have been testing around Sarnia and London, and how little seemed to come of that to date?

Those are the RDC's from Sarnia/London

That project was quietly shelved.

CN doesn't want to give up the track timetables needed for it.

Lets forget the fact that Sarnia used to have 4 trains a day prior to 2012.

This is why cancelling transit services should be very very carefully considered.

Once you cancel, its very hard to get them back.

CN/CP suddenly like a quiet rail.