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VIA Rail

Nothing new and may have been posted before, but was digging through VIA documents and I really liked this graphic showing the ways/tracks VIA uses to access Toronto and Montreal stations.

rEBlwIr.png
 
kEiThZ said:
UPE should include a TTC transfer if you're starting with your fare at Pearson.

Travel should be made as frictionless as possible. I really don't get why transit authorities in the GTA don't get that.
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but that lack of friction has a monetary cost because of the fare foregone. Who pays for it? GTAA? Metrolinx/provincial taxpayers? Toronto ratepayers?
 
steveintoronto said:
Is the Barrie line and CN by-pass track loop still used?
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My understanding is yes. This report is from 2016 so I'm assuming it is correct. This allows VIA trains to arrive from Toronto by using the Richmond Hill GO line, go to the Mimico yard to be cleaned etc, reverse to Union, then start a new trip up the Barrie Line. VIA's Canadian is too long to be efficiently turned on the VIA wye at Mimico, so this is the solution.

I really would love to photograph the Canadian on some of its "non-traditional" routing, like alongside UPE trains, at the future Downsview GO station, and eventually running over the Davenport grade separation.
 
dowlingm said:
but that lack of friction has a monetary cost because of the fare foregone. Who pays for it? GTAA? Metrolinx/provincial taxpayers? Toronto ratepayers?
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Add it to the fare and build it in. UPE has gone from too expensive to too cheap. It can stand to use a slight increase.

Also, I'm not suggesting every UPE fare include a TTC transfer, just the ones originating at Pearson. If you're getting on anywhere else on the line, you're either commuting or going to the airport, and the transfer isn't necessary or shouldn't be included.

They can also work out some funding deal for that. Not every UPE rider from Pearson will be taking the TTC. And many won't take it a very long distance or at peak. So the marginal cost is low. And the marginal revenue could be higher while still offering UPE a discount.
 
alexanderglista said:
My understanding is yes. This report is from 2016 so I'm assuming it is correct. This allows VIA trains to arrive from Toronto by using the Richmond Hill GO line, go to the Mimico yard to be cleaned etc, reverse to Union, then start a new trip up the Barrie Line. VIA's Canadian is too long to be efficiently turned on the VIA wye at Mimico, so this is the solution.

I really would love to photograph the Canadian on some of its "non-traditional" routing, like alongside UPE trains, at the future Downsview GO station, and eventually running over the Davenport grade separation.
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This was the arrangement with the Northlander too IIRC. It would certainly maximize the use of platform dwell time and availability too at Union.
 
ShonTron said:
The Northlander took the Bala Sub both in and out of Toronto when I rode it.
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The answer might be here:
ShonTron said:
The Northland, I believe, took the Bala Sub (Richmond Hill Line), even when the Newmarket Sub (GO Barrie Line) was still intact between Barrie and Washago. The Canadian (and the pre-1990 Northland train to North Bay/Timmins) took the Newmarket.
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I used to have a studio at 363 Sorauren some...yikes, thirty five + years ago, and would commute every day from my apartment at Ossington and College, and often see the Northland(er?) headed north on the Newmarket sub, complete with the Dutch locomotive and cars. But I've also seen same on the Bala sub when commuting west from living at Gerrard and Pape a few years later.

So I can't remember whether it was the Northland or Northlander, but it initially had the bulbous Dutch loco, later an F7 of some variant, but the same saloon type doors on the coaches, so the same coaches. I'd read later that one of those runs did a loop into Union via some path, and the lines crossed at or north of Washago.

Any clarification or references most appreciated.
hawc said:
I used to watch the Ontario Northland trains leaving Union Station westbound as they rolled past Spadina. [...].
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Addendum:
In 1977, the railway purchased four RAm/DE train sets retired from the Trans Europ Express by the Dutch and Swiss railways, for use on its Northlander train. However, the experiment was not entirely successful. The locomotives were scrapped in 1984, although the passenger cars survived until the early 1990s. These surviving passenger cars were pulled by rebuilt Canadian locomotives (EMD FP7). The rear end of the locomotives was altered to fit to original cars. With the Canadian locomotives, the control car / DVT lost their function.

Many passenger cars used on ONR trains today are former single-level GO Transit cars that were extensively refurbished after being used for commuter service around Toronto. [...]
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https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ontario_Northland_Railway

Beside the 'loop' mystery...one has to wonder on the present viability of "Many passenger cars used on ONR trains today are former single-level GO Transit cars that were extensively refurbished after being used for commuter service around Toronto."

Are any of those cars surplus and extant still in Ontario w/ ONR? (I've read of some being sold during their initial replacement to US operators).

If some are available, could they be used as non-powered coaches in UPX Nippon Sharyo consists? Very light from memory, and ostensibly able to manage the curve radius of the guideways into Pearson. And obviously multiplex compatible with GO equipment. Or were...
Hawker Siddeley RTC-85SP/D are diesel multiple units manufactured by Hawker Siddeley Canada for GO Transit, based on the H-series subway cars which they built for the Toronto Transit Commission.

The 92-seat RTC cars were ordered and delivered to GO Transit in 1967 as single-level self-propelled units # D700, D701, D702 to D708 (later renumbered as 9825-9826, 9827-9833) with total order of 117 cars.[1] All cars were built at Hawker's Thunder Bay, Ontario plant. In 1975 the cars were converted to cab cars by Ontario Northland Railway and some cars leased to MARC Train.

They have been withdrawn from service with 7 scrapped and remaining sold to other operators:

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steveintoronto said:
I'd read later that one of those runs did a loop into Union via some path, and some stations were only served southbound on one alignment, others northbound on another until the lines crossed north of Washago

Any clarification or references most appreciated.
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You might find some answers in the VIA Rail timetables, which covered the ONR trains until 2007.
 
Urban Sky said:
You might find some answers in the VIA Rail timetables, which covered the ONR trains until 2007.
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Whoa! What an absolute treasure....

Just glancing through the first one now, page 12 of 24, and even before getting there, I'm blown away by the choices available back then! I remember looking for options to do distance cycling even back then, but the baggage options and timings made life difficult save for some of the RDCs, where you could load your bike yourself. (As you could on the full train to Kingston in the morning, disembarked at Cobourg and cycled back to TO many times by a route north of Hwy 7 mostly) Many romantic memories with ex-wife...she used to do the miles too. Memories...

Anyway, one confusion has been clarified: "Northlander" must come after this timetable chronologically. The confusion was "Northland" (CN) and "Ontario Northland" (ONR).

Other readers: Take note of these timetables, and download them while still available at Dropbox. I'm completely lost now in even the first timetable...unreal. Many thanks for that Urban. Btw: Note the map of Lake Simcoe is upside down! Took me a few seconds to realize why I couldn't make sense of it initially.
 
As I recall, Canadian used to be short enough to be wyed until a few years back when they cut service and ran longer trains. Now it has to make less efficient moves to leave Toronto, which is a shame.
 
dowlingm said:
As I recall, Canadian used to be short enough to be wyed until a few years back when they cut service and ran longer trains. Now it has to make less efficient moves to leave Toronto, which is a shame.
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You can measure the wye at Mimico (I'm not aware of any other one's relevant for the Canadian) on Google Earth, but IIRC it's barely long enough for one locomotive with 6 cars. I believe they wyed at Bayview Jct. (between Hamilton and Aldershot) until that extra mileage (must be something like 60 kilometers per move) became too much to justify...

Edit: Does anyone know when the connection in the southeastern quadrant of Snider Junction got removed (thus necessitating the backing process over the connection in the northwestern quadrant)?
 
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Urban Sky said:
You might find some answers in the VIA Rail timetables, which covered the ONR trains until 2007.
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Absolutely fascinating, thank you so much!

It's a bit depressing to go chronologically through the schedules, watching the passenger rail network disintegrate the process. Hopefully the current upward trends (at least in the most densely-populated areas) will start to reverse the downward spiral we've been seeing for the past half-century.
 
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