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VIA Rail

This is entirely on point. Japan's HSR riders are largely commuters (during peak usage periods at least) doing ~300km distances (roughly 1 hour). If transportation allowed a Sudbury to Toronto trip within 1 hour and for $20, it would be quite attractive as a residential suburb of Toronto.

CRRC is developing a 450km/h (speed testing complete, production deployment in development), so in 10 years that scenario will be technically possible if we wanted to spend a huge amount of money to achieve it.
If The HFR gets built as a HSR, Could that mean you could live in Ottawa and commute to Toronto daily?
 
If The HFR gets built as a HSR, Could that mean you could live in Ottawa and commute to Toronto daily?

It would be a stretch in both cost and time.

2 hours each way (or more); and a ticket price that's nothing to sneeze at.

For most people, the answer would be no.
 
Somewhere in this discussion there is a point about focusing more economic growth in areas outside of Toronto or the GTA (Barrie, Peterbourgh, Port Hope/Coburg for instance) with existing or eminently possible quicker regional transit links through the GTA. Not that dispersing growth lessens pressure for housing, but it might or should aid in offering a lower threshold point to entry level housing (In theory anyways - who knows with Doug’s crew in charge)
 
Even with the urban boundary expansion the two cities still have some pretty large rural areas between them.

Once Highway 7 New opens, whenever that ends up being, I think you’ll see a lot more integration between the two cities. Right now transportation links are so poor that it’s not particularly easy to get between the two.
It's 5.7 km. And a straight line on Highway 7. Which flows a lot better than most Toronto roads - even in rush hour! And that's the current plan ... I'd think that there'd be future Woolwich growth still be towards Guelph - which will close the difference to 3 km. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Woolwich tries to expedite growth there, rather than the big expansions the province is imposing on Elmira and St. Jacobs (which raises another interesting passenger corridor question - perhaps the streetcar in Waterloo needs a branch).

Years ago there were lots of people commuting between Guelph and Kitchener/Waterloo. The only thing that's changing is the driving is getting shorter and shorter. I don't see how Guelph would be a bedroom community to Toronto, but not to Kitchener!
 
All of the trains in the Toronto-Ottawa-Montreal triangle are currently on time. I don't know if I've seen that before

Screenshot_20230916-145924.png
 
It's 5.7 km. And a straight line on Highway 7. Which flows a lot better than most Toronto roads - even in rush hour! And that's the current plan ... I'd think that there'd be future Woolwich growth still be towards Guelph - which will close the difference to 3 km. Heck, I wouldn't be surprised if Woolwich tries to expedite growth there, rather than the big expansions the province is imposing on Elmira and St. Jacobs (which raises another interesting passenger corridor question - perhaps the streetcar in Waterloo needs a branch).

Years ago there were lots of people commuting between Guelph and Kitchener/Waterloo. The only thing that's changing is the driving is getting shorter and shorter. I don't see how Guelph would be a bedroom community to Toronto, but not to Kitchener!
Kitchener and Guelph would have a really strong connection if the GO train ran more frequently. There are currently 10 trains per day eastbound and 9 westbound (the last evening train deadheads from Guelph to Shirley Yard in Kitchener), which is a huge improvement from a decade ago, but once hourly all day service starts I think there will be an increase in trips between the cities.
Screenshot_20230625-165537.png


The train is currently much faster than driving, but once they build a freeway bypass for Hwy 7, driving will become more popular, increasing congestion in both cities and encouraging urban sprawl between them.
 
Somewhere in this discussion there is a point about focusing more economic growth in areas outside of Toronto or the GTA (Barrie, Peterbourgh, Port Hope/Coburg for instance) with existing or eminently possible quicker regional transit links through the GTA.
Exactly: by building “quicker regional transit links” to places ~100 km outside of Toronto, not by building vanity HSR projects to geographically isolated places like Sudbury which are 400 km away…
 
And what is the population of the catchment areas for those services? Or is this a 'build it and they will come' service? And for $20 a ride, too!

In China? I think the plan is mostly to make an express network between large areas, routes with heavy air traffic, and allow the current 300km/h track to be a more local service between/closer smaller cities.

For price, $30 for 400km is roughly their current HSR pricing with some variance by route, time of day, etc.

NOTE: I'm not suggesting we should build HSR to Sudbury any more than we should build subways in the GTA suburbs. Just that it could be done if Toronto for some reason wanted Sudbury as a suburb on par with today's Barrie.
 
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Again, this is maximum speed, not average operating speed. I imagine with few stops, you could drive average speeds a bit higher than is currently seen in Japan, but I wouldn't imagine one would see much better than a 25% improvement in the foreseeable future.

It's also just another stepping stone for CRRC: their actual goal is closer to 600km/h with intentions of directly competing with jet travel.

Jets are not a domestic product (engines are really hard even if they get the rest, also fuel is mostly imported). The government is highly interested in a completely domestic tech for high speed travel.

But yes, my entire comment was tongue-in-cheek. It's not appropriate in Ontario; but we're building Eglinton West as a subway so who am I to say it's not something we will opt to build.
 
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It's also just another stepping stone for CRRC: their actual goal is closer to 600km/h with intentions of directly competing with jet travel.

Jets are not a domestic product (engines are really hard even if they get the rest, also fuel is mostly imported). The government is highly interested in a completely domestic tech for high speed travel.

But yes, my entire comment was tongue-in-cheek. It's not appropriate in Ontario; but we're building Eglinton West as a subway so who am I to say it's not something we will opt to build.
Having toured COMAC in China, I can assure you that domestic civilian aircraft production is very much a Chinese priority. COMAC will bring to production the C919 in volume shortly, a plane that is sized to replace the current line of Boeing 737’s . And that is just the start. Engine technology in China most likely trails that of Western builders and that will change at a pace somewhat dictated by Chinese Intelligence efforts.

Given the pace of immense Chinese airport construction and the pace of HSR building that continues, I am sure Chinese central planning envisions a world where both plane and train co-exist. And in China, you have exceptional population numbers almost everywhere too facilitate these investments.
 
Exactly: by building “quicker regional transit links” to places ~100 km outside of Toronto, not by building vanity HSR projects to geographically isolated places like Sudbury which are 400 km away…
And I would think that same model could be extended to Montreal, although I am not familiar enough with the rail lines to offer specific examples. But I would think the North Shore towards Quebec, the south shore towards Sorel, or Drummondville, or Sherbrooke?
 
And I would think that same model could be extended to Montreal, although I am not familiar enough with the rail lines to offer specific examples. But I would think the North Shore towards Quebec, the south shore towards Sorel, or Drummondville, or Sherbrooke?
Trois-Rivières would certainly boom with HFR, but it‘s unfortunately difficult to conceive how frequent intercity services could be centered around linking Montreal with Drummondville or Sherbrooke…
 
Exactly: by building “quicker regional transit links” to places ~100 km outside of Toronto, not by building vanity HSR projects to geographically isolated places like Sudbury which are 400 km away…
Would HSR instead of HFR between Toronto and Ottawa be a vanity project?
 
Would HSR instead of HFR between Toronto and Ottawa be a vanity project?
Now that you are being made aware that Ottawa happens to be the political center of this country with almost ten times of Sudbury‘s population (Sudbury itself is barely larger than Trois-Rivières and even smaller than Sherbrooke) and conveniently located between this country’s two dominating metropolitan areas, what do you think…?
 
Now that you are being made aware that Ottawa happens to be the political center of this country with almost ten times of Sudbury‘s population (Sudbury itself is barely larger than Trois-Rivières and even smaller than Sherbrooke) and conveniently located between this country’s two dominating metropolitan areas, what do you think…?
With how you post, Ido not know if you think anything in Canada should see HSR. I merely mentioned Sudbury as it is within 400km of Toronto and people had compared Japan's HSR having commuters traveling that much each day.
 

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