VIA Rail cuts services in Southern Ontario

[royalrivers]

VIA stations to lose ticketing agents

VIA stations to lose ticketing agents

KITCHENER — VIA Rail Canada will no longer use ticketing agents at four stations across southwestern Ontario, including the Guelph train station, by Oct. 24, a VIA spokesperson said Friday.

Passengers travelling from Kitchener, Guelph, Niagara Falls and St. Catharines will have to purchase tickets online and print them at the soon-to-be unstaffed stations.

VIA Rail spokesperson Mylène Bélanger said travellers will be able to access an e-ticketing system, which will allow passengers to print tickets from home or have them sent to their web-enabled smartphone. She said the service is expected to come online for all users of VIA’s Windsor to Quebec City rail corridor by the end of the summer.

“The majority of our customers make their bookings online already,†said. “It’s going to be even easier for you as a customer, because there will be one step less.â€

But Tim Mollison, of the Tri-Cities Transport Action Group, said there is an entirely different motivation behind the layoffs.

“(VIA has) been asked to send increasing percentages and dollar values in savings to the Treasury (Board) each year.â€

Bélanger agreed that “the ongoing need to control operating costs here at VIA,†partly motivated the decision to lay off ticketing agents.

VIA employees affected by the decision say they are frequently called to help passengers with mobility restrictions board trains. They said that making stations unstaffed may leave passengers with disabilities unable to board trains in a timely fashion, or not at all.

Bélanger said VIA is “holding discussions as to how we will continue to provide service to our customers with mobility needs at these planned unstaffed locations.â€

VIA workers also said they had been told the unstaffed stations will be locked from October onwards, forcing passengers to wait outside. Bélanger denied this.

The move to lay off ticketing agents comes almost one month after VIA announced its weekday 6:29 a.m. train to Toronto and the 10 p.m. weekday return trip would cease sometime between now and the end of October.

That decision left many Kitchener travellers with fewer options to reach southwestern Ontario cities like London and Sarnia, which are not served by GO Transit trains.

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[reaperexpress]

With VIA leaving the Toronto-Niagara Falls corridor, what is the future of Grimsby Station?

The station, which serves quite a small community, would make more sense as a regional GO station, rather than being served by long-distance intercity trains such as the Amtrak Maple Leaf

 

[ShonTron]

That's not so much a Greyhound cut as GO / MTO buying out the terminal and thus forcing GO to eliminate a stop most people dislike. According to CTV and elsewhere, Sportsworld is going to be a GO terminal (or stop?) and a carpool lot as of this fall. It's likely going to be a stop on the 200 iXpress, so people will probably also use the free parking lot to commute into K-W.

Which stop do GO passengers dislike? Dumb Centres Cambridge? Or do you mean (more likely) that Greyhound riders dislike the Sportsworld terminal?

I would love GO to take over Guelph-Kitchener next!

 

[royalrivers]

Which stop do GO passengers dislike? Dumb Centres Cambridge? Or do you mean (more likely) that Greyhound riders dislike the Sportsworld terminal?

I would love GO to take over Guelph-Kitchener next!

I agree. Alas, Greyhound seems to hold the rights to the Kitchener to Guelph route. My thought would be do it Guelph via Hwy 24 to Cambridge to Kitchener. At least we would have more GO buses to Kitchener area then now.

 

[mpd618]

Which stop do GO passengers dislike? Dumb Centres Cambridge? Or do you mean (more likely) that Greyhound riders dislike the Sportsworld terminal?

Yeah, I meant the latter.

I agree. Alas, Greyhound seems to hold the rights to the Kitchener to Guelph route. My thought would be do it Guelph via Hwy 24 to Cambridge to Kitchener. At least we would have more GO buses to Kitchener area then now.

Getting GO buses direct between Guelph and Kitchener would be fantastic. As far as I can tell, GO does not have to get permission of the Ontario Highway Transport Board to run service. It's still part of the province, so it just may not want to tread too much on the OHTB's arrangements with private bus companies.

 

[Woodbridge_Heights]

It's a real shame given that over 40 of the most populous municipalities in Canada are in Ontario; and that most of those are in the South and South-Western Ontario region. That VIA cannot find a profitable business model to serve these municipalities...

 

[Filip]

Are we surprised? VIA is a disaster, quite frankly the only method of transportation in Canada I loathe. Unless you book months in advance, you're basically paying marginally less than a flight, for about the same travel time as driving.

The onboard services? The WiFi never quite works properly, and the attendants are more surly than on Air Canada. No wonder they have a difficult time attracting ridership. Maybe try to price your product accordingly? There is no reason why a Toronto-Ottawa ticket should, on average, cost about $250. I can easily get that price by booking 3 weeks in advance for a flight. I paid about 100 euros for Renfe AVE (high speed Spanish train) round trip Madrid-Barcelona each time I traveled that route. For a travel time of 2.5h for about 600km, I ain't complaining!

I respect Greyhound because their product is priced accordingly. I also respect airlines because their product is also priced accordingly. VIA just does not make any sense to me. Pricing yourself in the same region as a flight when the trip takes as long as in a car is a bit rich. If anything, the max price for VIA tickets between TOR-OTT should be about $120.

 

[nfitz]

There is no reason why a Toronto-Ottawa ticket should, on average, cost about $250. I can easily get that price by booking 3 weeks in advance for a flight.

Not sure where your getting your numbers. I just checked VIA for next Monday, and the web-only fares for Toronto-Ottawa return are $149.16 including all charges and taxes. Checking Travelocity for flights the same day the best I'm seeing is $430 return. For a month away I'm seeing $240 for flights on Travelocity compared to $137.86 on VIA.

 

[Filip]

Not sure where your getting your numbers. I just checked VIA for next Monday, and the web-only fares for Toronto-Ottawa return are $149.16 including all charges and taxes. Checking Travelocity for flights the same day the best I'm seeing is $430 return. For a month away I'm seeing $240 for flights on Travelocity compared to $137.86 on VIA.

For me it's every time I try to book with VIA. I try doing it three weeks in advance on average. I was looking at rates for the coming long weekend.. $230 for VIA, $330 for Air Canada, $450 for Porter. It looks like I'm driving again.

 

[rbt]

For me it's every time I try to book with VIA. I try doing it three weeks in advance on average. I was looking at rates for the coming long weekend.. $230 for VIA, $330 for Air Canada, $450 for Porter. It looks like I'm driving again.

Yeah, the actual start and end of a long weekend are frequently sold out on Via and they don't seem to add additional runs.

Labour Day weekend isn't so bad ($150 roundtrip if you book now).

 

[nfitz]

Labour Day weekend isn't so bad ($150 roundtrip if you book now).

I seem to recall that you couldn't do this for much less than $100 in the 1980s. I recall being surprised when it crossed the $100 mark. Compared to air travel, it's not gone up as much. In the 1990s, I used to fly this for $140ish, and could do UK for under $400 return, compared to $120 or so on VIA.

How Greyhound manages to do it for significantly less than they did in the 1980s I don't know (it was always slightly cheaper than VIA back then, but certainly not worth it - even for a starving student). I can't imagine how much they've skimped on pay for operators, etc. It's no wonder their buses keep hitting things these days.

 

[DavidJamesTO]

Are we surprised? VIA is a disaster, quite frankly the only method of transportation in Canada I loathe. Unless you book months in advance, you're basically paying marginally less than a flight, for about the same travel time as driving.

I buy tickets during their half-off sale. I think the most in advance I've ever purchased tickets is a month.

The onboard services? The WiFi never quite works properly, and the attendants are more surly than on Air Canada.

Agreed on the Wi-Fi, but I've had horrible wi-fi sitting perfectly still in a building. And I can't say that I've had any surly attendants on a VIA train.

No wonder they have a difficult time attracting ridership. Maybe try to price your product accordingly? There is no reason why a Toronto-Ottawa ticket should, on average, cost about $250. I can easily get that price by booking 3 weeks in advance for a flight. I paid about 100 euros for Renfe AVE (high speed Spanish train) round trip Madrid-Barcelona each time I traveled that route. For a travel time of 2.5h for about 600km, I ain't complaining!

Ah, but European governments actually recognize that decent railway systems require subsidies, especially when said railway systems have to compete with the government-subsidized highway networks. Canada and the US haven't quite twigged onto that yet.

 

[rbt]

Canada and the US haven't quite twigged onto that yet.

Amtrak is extreamly subsidized and damn cheap. Chicago to Texas for under $100 in coach. The only segments of Amtrak which are actually expensive are Accella and if they were any cheaper you wouldn't be able to buy a seat (severe capacity restrictions).

New York to Montreal is $64 and a 12 hour trip. I strongly recommend it as it is very scenic but certainly not fast.

Boston to Portland ME is $25 one way in business class.

Detroit to Chicago was about $58.

Heck, I've done Seattle to San Francisco twice for under $400 and that included a room and meals.

Amtraks problem is that it is damn slow, not the ticket price which is very heavily subsidized in most cases.

 

[Platform 27]

Ah, but European governments actually recognize that decent railway systems require subsidies, especially when said railway systems have to compete with the government-subsidized highway networks. Canada and the US haven't quite twigged onto that yet.

Via's cost-recovery is currently slightly under 50% (operating only, excluding capital). They presumably do a bit better than that on the likes of Toronto-Ottawa runs and a lot worse on some of the really remote routes. Magically rearrange the accounting so the remote stuff vanishes (which is a pretty small slice of Via overall) and I suspect the cost recovery is still a fair bit worse than the likes of the TTC.

The fact remains that--setting aside whether the service is public or private--sometimes buses just make more financial sense than trains. Unlike Via, Greyhound can fully recover operating costs, plus fully fund its capital requirements for vehicles and make their shareholders a profit, all from user fees that are considerably lower. Yes, they're taking advantage of a public subsidy of the highway network (which, let's be fair, is spent first and foremost to satisfy private auto owners and the trucking industry; who ever heard of money being spent on an unneeded 400-series Highway because of the dastardly lobbying of "Big Bus"?). But unless a train is...
(a) getting you where you're going a fair bit faster than a bus;
(b) carrying a whole lot more people than can be efficiently accommodated on buses;
(c) travelling somewhere the highway network doesn't go; or
(d) specifically appealing to passengers on the basis of its novelty value
...chances are its only real advantages over bus service boil down to (1) a more comfortable ride and (2) a sandwich trolley.

Condition (a) gets met when your train is beating rush hour traffic (i.e. commuter contexts) or running on inter-city routes considerably faster than highway speeds. Condition (b) gets met when you have really busy intercity routes or in commuter contexts like GO. Condition (c) gets met in places like northern Ontario. Condition (d) gets met on various sightseeing or heritage trains.

For Toronto-Ottawa travellers, Via isn't going to beat Megabus on the basis of (b), (c) or (d). Unless we're willing as taxpayers to fund a proper Via product that offers a substantively shorter ride time than a bus (which, to be clear, is not necessarily full-on HSR), we shouldn't be surprised consumers keep doing the math and not paying hundreds of dollars more per trip for access to a sandwich trolley.

 

[reaperexpress]

Via's cost-recovery is currently slightly under 50% (operating only, excluding capital). They presumably do a bit better than that on the likes of Toronto-Ottawa runs and a lot worse on some of the really remote routes. Magically rearrange the accounting so the remote stuff vanishes (which is a pretty small slice of Via overall) and I suspect the cost recovery is still a fair bit worse than the likes of the TTC.

The fact remains that--setting aside whether the service is public or private--sometimes buses just make more financial sense than trains. Unlike Via, Greyhound can fully recover operating costs, plus fully fund its capital requirements for vehicles and make their shareholders a profit, all from user fees that are considerably lower. Yes, they're taking advantage of a public subsidy of the highway network (which, let's be fair, is spent first and foremost to satisfy private auto owners and the trucking industry; who ever heard of money being spent on an unneeded 400-series Highway because of the dastardly lobbying of "Big Bus"?). But unless a train is...
(a) getting you where you're going a fair bit faster than a bus;
(b) carrying a whole lot more people than can be efficiently accommodated on buses;
(c) travelling somewhere the highway network doesn't go; or
(d) specifically appealing to passengers on the basis of its novelty value
...chances are its only real advantages over bus service boil down to (1) a more comfortable ride and (2) a sandwich trolley.

Condition (a) gets met when your train is beating rush hour traffic (i.e. commuter contexts) or running on inter-city routes considerably faster than highway speeds. Condition (b) gets met when you have really busy intercity routes or in commuter contexts like GO. Condition (c) gets met in places like northern Ontario. Condition (d) gets met on various sightseeing or heritage trains.

For Toronto-Ottawa travellers, Via isn't going to beat Megabus on the basis of (b), (c) or (d). Unless we're willing as taxpayers to fund a proper Via product that offers a substantively shorter ride time than a bus (which, to be clear, is not necessarily full-on HSR), we shouldn't be surprised consumers keep doing the math and not paying hundreds of dollars more per trip for access to a sandwich trolley.

I think they key factor here is (b). Once you've managed to fill your buses, the cost per rider does not decrease much with increased volume, since it just means adding more buses.

Trains can operate at a much lower cost per rider than buses, when ridership is high. The trick is getting there.

I think VIA has gotten itself into a bit of a catch-22. Ridership is low because the price is high, and the price is high because ridership is low.

At the moment, with the market split between many modes, trains are more expensive to run than buses. But I suspect that if trains were to capture airlines' and buses' market shares (through artificially lowered prices), the cost per rider would drop and the cost would legitimately drop to that price level.