TTC to Proceed with Drug Testing

[Panzerfaust]

On the actual thread topic:

High-tech scans mulled as TTC workplace tests

Procedures needed that can detect staff fatigue, impairment without infringing on human rights

Jun 19, 2008 04:30 AM
Tess Kalinowski
Transportation Reporter

Facial and retina scans are among "hundreds" of technologies available as the TTC contemplates drafting a fitness-for-duty policy to ensure its 12,000 workers are sober, rested and clear-headed.

"We understand there are technologies out there – everything from established (devices) such as breathalyzers to some new technologies around optical scans, facial scans," said TTC chair Adam Giambrone yesterday, while declining to discuss specifics.

In August, the TTC will review a recommendation on how to determine employee fitness in relation to drugs and alcohol, and possibly emotional state and fatigue levels.

All possibilities will be considered, Giambrone said, but the issue is morally and legally complex.

"It's unclear to what degree drug and alcohol testing is legal in Canada. We also have the issues of human rights and respect for our employees, and we have to balance that against ensuring the public is safe," he said.

Union head Bob Kinnear said any testing would have to be negotiated.

"We're not going to allow the TTC to implement any policy that's going to be an invasion of our privacy. It's that simple," he said.

A TTC worker killed April 2007 in a subway tunnel was later found to have been smoking pot on the job.

I'm not sure how to feel about this. On one hand, face scanning technology would be a huge extra expense and possibly result in false-positives. On the other hand, at least the TTC is trying to keep human rights intact. I really don't think there will be any panacea for this, but they can try, I guess. I still say my "mouth swab if you suspect anything" idea is better, though. Cheaper too.

 

[Prometheus The Supremo]

No. A million times no. Salvia is not a drug where you can "suggest" things to make a trip better. At best, his friends voices would transform into demons telling him that the world he knows isn't real and that he will spend an eternity having experiences like he's having because that world is the real one. As a salvia trip sitter, the best thing you can do is just shut up until they calm down with the tripping, at which point it's safe to talk. Anything else either doesn't register with them or sounds like something totally different. It's one of those weird things that stays mostly the same regardless of the person doing the drug.

are you sure? i think the demons are part of the subconscious mind of the particular user. i fell the same way about the salvia goddess. one guy probably saw her and told some people & and when those people did salvia, they saw her too because the idea was put in their mind by someone else. maybe it's best to make suggestions way before the trip, like months in advance, every single day leading up to the event so the suggestions are programmed into the mind. i think you may be right about making suggestions during the trip as a bad idea because salvia is known to cause severe sound distortions and the user most likely won't be able to understand what's being said (the higher the dose, the worse the effect).

 

[Panzerfaust]

are you sure? i think the demons are part of the subconscious mind of the particular user. i fell the same way about the salvia goddess. one guy probably saw her and told some people & and when those people did salvia, they saw her too because the idea was put in their mind by someone else. maybe it's best to make suggestions way before the trip, like months in advance, every single day leading up to the event so the suggestions are programmed into the mind. i think you may be right about making suggestions during the trip as a bad idea because salvia is known to cause severe sound distortions and the user most likely won't be able to understand what's being said (the higher the dose, the worse the effect).

Yeah, I meant making suggestions during the trip is a bad idea. Before the trip, you can influence it, much like with any hallucinogen. For example, if you're scared of doing it and think it'll be a bad trip, guess what? It'll be a bad trip. If you tell yourself "I am going to see (insert thing here)", you might, but it probably won't be in the way you envision it.

I have never heard of this "salvia goddess" you speak of, but a lot of people talk about meeting higher powers while smoking it, so I'm assuming it's just a variation on that which has passed into common knowledge.

 

[Therion]

This is going way off-topic, but if you want to access higher mental states, astral projection through dream control is a lot safer than psychoactive drug use. With astral projection you learn the slow way, with control of the process; drugs basically toss you out there into the great unknown. If you want to learn more about this sort of stuff, buy Astral Dynamics by Robert Bruce.

 

[adma]

Naw, everyone's known for years that the biggest hallucinogen on the TTC is the Cinnabon smell at Eglinton...

 

[kEiThZ]

http://www.thestar.com/comment/article/500408

The Star thinks that the TTC Drug Tests are too much....

 

[nfitz]

In my workplace our lawyers have always told us that Canadian legal precedents wouldn't allow for this, even though they test our US employees.

I'd be interested to hear from TTC's lawyers on why are not going to spend a lot of $ and then lose in court on this.

 

[kEiThZ]

In my workplace our lawyers have always told us that Canadian legal precedents wouldn't allow for this, even though they test our US employees.

I'd be interested to hear from TTC's lawyers on why are not going to spend a lot of $ and then lose in court on this.

I don't know what your firm does but perhaps the public imperative over rights privacy....

For years, the military didn't do testing. Once Afghanistan became a rotational mission, drug testing came in. And they found out that at least one in four were using some type of prohibited substance....the Army and Navy types tend to have a very casual attitude to umm casual drug use. The Air Force for better or for worse, owing to the nature of our day to day business has not had the same rate of drug use. But it's better they found that out at home, than on the battlefield. And they haven't moved to charge anyone but the most extreme cases. Most first time offenders who hadn't committed offences that impacted their duties, were given administrative reprimands and ordered into counseling. I believe this is a sound policy to apply to any body who has significant public responsibility that could result in death or injury. They need not be fired over it on the first offence (except if they are impaired on the job), they can be reprimanded and counseled like the above example.

 

[nfitz]

The precedents we were cited were from the transportation industry (though we were not).

Hopefully the Commissioners have enough sense to ask for a legal opinion before they authorise this.