TTC surface stop spacing

[ehlow]

I'll be curious to see how a Mount-Dennis to Kennedy trip takes on the Crosstown compared to a Jane-Kennedy trip on Line 2. Are those numbers out there?

It says 38 min on the Crosstown website.

 

[jcam]

It says 38 min on the Crosstown website.

Google says 45 mins for the Jane-Kennedy trip on Line 2. (so probably comparable when you factor in the northern travel component on Line 2.

 

[reaperexpress]

I just stumbled upon this memo from Councillor Nunziata (Ward 11 - York South/Weston) in September 2015, objecting to a couple stop removals.

Some highlights:

While I understand the TTC is moving toward eliminating closely-spaced stops, I believe that this should not be applied as a "blanket policy" and instead, consideration should be given to the area in which a stop is located and the customers using the stop.

If the TTC proceeds with its plans to consolidate the existing bus stops on Weston Road and Dora Spencer Road and Sidney Belsey Crescent, residents of 200 Dora Spencer Road will have to walk an additional 105 metres to the south to reach the new consolidated stop location.
While it is appropriate for the TTC to have "Stop Guidelines", I believe that discretion should be used in the application of these guidelines. At this particular location, adhering to the guidelines will provide a barrier for the many seniors of 200 Dora Spencer Road to access public transit.

I don't know how many other similar movements there are, but every stop removal will inevitably result in some upset citizens.

Community opposition is obviously the reason stop rationalization occurs so slowly, not lack of initiative on the TTC side.

 

[lead82]

Misguided community opposition and incompetent planners that can't explain to the public that transit is not meant to be at the door step. Walking 100m to catch a bus is not reason to keep a stop. Transit stops should not be decided by the community. Stops can be recommended by a community but planners need to get numbers and see if there is merit in the stop and whether it is too close to another one.

It's frankly insane the number of stops that surface transit has in this city. The number of bus routes with stops on both sides of an intersection. When I attended the Finch West LRT open houses I asked why the stop spacing was so close for an LRT. The TTC advertises it as an improvement but with the frequent stops it is not an LRT but a glorified suburban streetcar on a ROW.

I rode the Spadina Streetcar last week on a weekday mid afternoon and it took almost 20mins to get from Spadina station to Queen. That is only 2-2.5km. I could walk that distance in the same time. For example, the Sussex stop and the stop just north of Spadina circle should be removed. The Harbord stop is no even 100m away from either of them. South of College all of the mid-block stops should be removed and the traffic light priority needs to be enabled so streetcars aren't stuck at signals all the time waiting for the light to change.

Part of the frustration of taking public transit in Toronto is the glacial speed that it moves. I've ridden buses in much denser cities like London, Barcelona and Paris and buses move very efficiently through narrow roads with traffic. They certainly don't stop in every block but stop only on major intersections or landmarks.

 

[johntauren]

Spadina spacing is fine as is - but definitely needs work on transit priority.


Stops on both sides of an intersection make very little sense to me.

On the subject of removing stops, they should consider the community. To me, it makes more sense for a bit closer spacing in some rare cases - such as a senior residence or something similar.

 

[sixrings]

I dont think we should be adding stops for seniors homes.. seniors homes should be locating themselves around stops.. The whole thing with stop spacing is that it is a slippery slope. I use to live in the suburbs and anytime a new building or townhouse community was built on a line they would add a stop when at most an existing stop was maybe 100-200 meters away. So what happened was a 30 minute bus ride now became a hour bus ride which detered me from wanting to use transit. Well It made me move closer to downtown since I didnt want to drive either. But anyways every developer is going to request a stop which makes sense. Its the TTC which needs to just say NO. Instead we have some intersections with stops on both sides of the intersection going in the same direction which encourages people who can walk to be lazy and just pick the closest one out of convenience.

 

[Napoleon]

I rode the Spadina Streetcar last week on a weekday mid afternoon and it took almost 20mins to get from Spadina station to Queen. That is only 2-2.5km. I could walk that distance in the same time. For example, the Sussex stop and the stop just north of Spadina circle should be removed. The Harbord stop is no even 100m away from either of them. South of College all of the mid-block stops should be removed and the traffic light priority needs to be enabled so streetcars aren't stuck at signals all the time waiting for the light to change.

I agree the stop spacing is absolutely insane in this city. I think much of the support for it (even on this discussion forum) is inertia. There's a good NYT article that discusses San Francisco and their efforts to eliminate stops:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/30/u...low-but-just-try-eliminating-a-stop.html?_r=0
There they have the added issue of steep hills which Toronto doesn't really have. I would love to see the minimum spacing increased in Toronto. Even Steve Munro, who normally is a relatively sane voice for transit, gets all worked up when they want to eliminate the stop in front of his house.

As for seniors, I sympathize, but if they can't walk 100 meters to transit, I'm not sure how useful the transit system is going to be for them.

 

[salsa]

Sometimes I take the Finch bus between Bathurst and Yonge, and the amount of stops on that segment is just ridiculous. In rush hour it can take an unbelievably long time to travel that short distance when the bus has to keep stopping every few metres to let off a couple of people.

 

[the lemur]

So the southbound stop on the 511 Bathurst south of Bloor is now at Lennox, but the shelter is still mid-block. Do they usually move those as well?

 

[reaperexpress]

So the southbound stop on the 511 Bathurst south of Bloor is now at Lennox, but the shelter is still mid-block. Do they usually move those as well?

Yes but there can be a delay because the stop itself is moved by the TTC, but the shelter is moved by the City. The latter probably waits till the stop is actually moved before starting work on moving the shelter, given how often stop changes get halted by grumpy citizens.

Sometimes I take the Finch bus between Bathurst and Yonge, and the amount of stops on that segment is just ridiculous. In rush hour it can take an unbelievably long time to travel that short distance when the bus has to keep stopping every few metres to let off a couple of people.

Yikes, that's bad. Finch East has a lot of stops too, but at least there are express services as an alternative.

Going westbound from Yonge, there are traffic signals at:
Beecroft (238m)
Talbot (381m)
Edithvale (347m)
Senlac (264m)
Endell (627m)
Bathurst (436m)

Other than Senlac to Endell and possibly Endell to Bathurst, these are pretty reasonable distances. So it looks like they could reasonably get rid of all the midblock stops except for Clarkhill.

 

[ehlow]

Misguided community opposition and incompetent planners that can't explain to the public that transit is not meant to be at the door step. Walking 100m to catch a bus is not reason to keep a stop. Transit stops should not be decided by the community. Stops can be recommended by a community but planners need to get numbers and see if there is merit in the stop and whether it is too close to another one.

It's frankly insane the number of stops that surface transit has in this city. The number of bus routes with stops on both sides of an intersection. When I attended the Finch West LRT open houses I asked why the stop spacing was so close for an LRT. The TTC advertises it as an improvement but with the frequent stops it is not an LRT but a glorified suburban streetcar on a ROW.

I rode the Spadina Streetcar last week on a weekday mid afternoon and it took almost 20mins to get from Spadina station to Queen. That is only 2-2.5km. I could walk that distance in the same time. For example, the Sussex stop and the stop just north of Spadina circle should be removed. The Harbord stop is no even 100m away from either of them. South of College all of the mid-block stops should be removed and the traffic light priority needs to be enabled so streetcars aren't stuck at signals all the time waiting for the light to change.

Part of the frustration of taking public transit in Toronto is the glacial speed that it moves. I've ridden buses in much denser cities like London, Barcelona and Paris and buses move very efficiently through narrow roads with traffic. They certainly don't stop in every block but stop only on major intersections or landmarks.

I agree with a lot of this post but the Finch West LRT has much further stop spacing than the buses & streetcars mentioned here no? It's definitely faster & farther stop spacing than Spadina which is often like 100-200m stop spacing.

 

[lead82]

Sometimes I take the Finch bus between Bathurst and Yonge, and the amount of stops on that segment is just ridiculous. In rush hour it can take an unbelievably long time to travel that short distance when the bus has to keep stopping every few metres to let off a couple of people.

View attachment 63722

I used to take that bus many years ago and it's absolutely brutal to have to stop every 100m just to pick up or drop off 1 person.

If I was the TTC I would keep only Bathurst, Ancona, Senlac, Talbot and Beecroft. There is no need for a stop at Yonge as its only 100-120m to Beecroft. There is not much need for the Edithvale stop as most people currently drive there or walk from the community. The Senlac and Talbot stops are about 200m from there so people can easily walk it.

 

[lead82]

Also, the westbound Yonge stop st the Starbucks blocks a lane of traffic very close to the intersection causing danger to pedestrians as cars line up behind the bus st rush hour and block the intersection and crosswalks.

 

[W. K. Lis]

From this link. The 199B Finch Rocket will be a new branch that:

...will provide express service between Scarborough Centre Station and York University via Finch Station, during the daytime and early evening, Monday to Friday.

On March 27, 2016, the TTC will introduce five new express routes across the city of Toronto on Don Mills Road, Finch Avenue West, Kipling Avenue, Victoria Park Avenue, and Wilson Avenue.

A longer list of recommended new and/or enhanced express routes is currently being finalized and will be presented to the TTC Board in the “Express Bus Network Study Final Report” at the June 29, 2016 Board meeting.
​

That'll give some passengers less stops on some of those routes, if they use the Rocket Express buses.

​

 

[salsa]

From this link. The 199B Finch Rocket will be a new branch that:

...will provide express service between Scarborough Centre Station and York University via Finch Station, during the daytime and early evening, Monday to Friday.​

The new Finch Rocket will be one of the only east-west bus routes that don't terminate at Yonge. This will definitely be convenient for me.