TTC surface stop spacing

[mdrejhon]

One compromise is the express/allstop system.

Hamilton has #1 and #10 which is an allstop versus express bus (>1km average stop spacing).

The #10 B-Line express bus is Hamilton's most popular bus, gobbling something like 15% of the ridership of the whole city -- on just one bus route. This is the bus that will be replaced with an LRT.

It's possible that the #1 bus will continue to exist in an allstop manner (possibly on a Main 2-way).

 

[reaperexpress]

On Sunday 3 September the northbound stop on Broadview at Danforth located just outside Broadview Station was removed from the 504 King and 505 Dundas routes. It continues to serve the 304 King overnight service to provide a direct connection to the 300 Bloor-Danforth bus which replaces the subway overnight.

Around the same time, Transit Signal Priority was activated to further help streetcars get through the intersection without stopping.

The resultant stop spacing is about 380 metres from Wolfrey Avenue to the 504 platform in Broadview Station, or 400 metres to the 505 platform.

Here's the new stop marker. Unfortunately while I was out there, about half of the streetcars still served the stop, which is extra frustrating because it caused some of them to miss the green that was being provided to them by the priority system.

 

[Voltz]

Aren't the Blue Night only stops blue instead of red at the top and bottom of the sign?

 

[Steve X]

Aren't the Blue Night only stops blue instead of red at the top and bottom of the sign?

Not anymore. Welcome to the new TTC era!

 

[Voltz]

Not anymore. Welcome to the new TTC era!

Wonderful way to keep things unclear, especially to their operators who are don't seem to know what the sign means.

 

[reaperexpress]

Wonderful way to keep things unclear, especially to their operators who are don't seem to know what the sign means.

This is one of the first times (if not the first time) the new style of Blue Night stop marker has been used on the streetcar network. Operators will become familiar with it soon enough.

Personally I think the new design is much clearer than the old style of markers which had different colours that were not explained, like orange faces, yellow faces, red bands, blue bands, or red and blue bands. I'm not aware of any other system which resorts to such a mishmash of different base colours on the stop marker. Much more common (and intuitive, in my opinion) is the new standard where the stop marker itself is always the same, but the items on it are coloured differently.

The new system is very simple.
1. Red bands identify a TTC stop (as opposed to a YRT stop which would have blue bands for example)
2. The routes which serve the stop are all listed, and coloured as per their type (red for regular, green for express, blue for night, and grey for community bus) and frequency (filled background for full service, white background for limited service). If the route is not listed, it does not stop here.
3. On top of the above, the stops which are only served at night have an additional icon saying Blue Night Stop. This icon is on a solid blue background and can be seen from a long distance away.
4. As always, there are the additional icons such as 24-h service, express service and accessible stop.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

This is one of the first times (if not the first time) the new style of Blue Night stop marker has been used on the streetcar network. Operators will become familiar with it soon enough.

Personally I think the new design is much clearer than the old style of markers which had different colours that were not explained, like orange faces, yellow faces, red bands, blue bands, or red and blue bands. I'm not aware of any other system which resorts to such a mishmash of different base colours on the stop marker. Much more common (and intuitive, in my opinion) is the new standard where the stop marker itself is always the same, but the items on it are coloured differently.

The new system is very simple.
1. Red bands identify a TTC stop (as opposed to a YRT stop which would have blue bands for example)
2. The routes which serve the stop are all listed, and coloured as per their type (red for regular, green for express, blue for night, and grey for community bus) and frequency (filled background for full service, white background for limited service). If the route is not listed, it does not stop here.
3. On top of the above, the stops which are only served at night have an additional icon saying Blue Night Stop. This icon is on a solid blue background and can be seen from a long distance away.
4. As always, there are the additional icons such as 24-h service, express service and accessible stop.

Don't forget they also have the stop number you can text to 89882 to find out when the next vehicles will stop there.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Gone:

 

[nfitz]

Wonderful way to keep things unclear, especially to their operators who are don't seem to know what the sign means.

I heard two of them discussing it on the 504, while parked waiting for the light, trying to figure out what it meant (from the distance). Doesn't seem they were briefed on it.

Hmm, comparing the 304/504 eastbound schedule to the 300 East/West schedule, they'd have to stop nine or ten early/late 504s, but only the five 304s. So most of the stopping there will still be 504s, despite the signage.

They need a sign that has time on it - like the southbound stop.

 

[reaperexpress]

Hmm, comparing the 304/504 eastbound schedule to the 300 East/West schedule, they'd have to stop nine or ten early/late 504s, but only the five 304s. So most of the stopping there will still be 504s, despite the signage.

They need a sign that has time on it - like the southbound stop.

The southbound stop times don't work at all - people just see "504/505" and wait there, despite the numerous notices saying saying that there's no service during the peak periods. Then some operators feel bad and pick them up anyway. I was there during the AM Peak a few days ago and it seemed like almost half of streetcars stopped there (and missed the green as a result).

I actually looked into this time discrepancy, and I think it's probably fine. Nominally the "304" service doesn't start till quite late, but given that "Blue Night" service starts at 1:30 AM, I'm guessing that the 504s that are still out at that time basically start operating as if they were 304 runs.

To resolve the possible issue, I think there are two good options which avoid putting the 504 on the sign (to avoid the confusion which arises from time-of-day notices).
1. After 1:30 AM 504 trips officially serve the stop - and the stop marker is only adjusted so the little moon at the bottom reads "night service starts at 1:30 AM". People don't care if a streetcar's destination sign says "504" or "304" as long as it serves the night stops.
2. At 1:30 AM, all 504s switch actually switch the destination signs to 304 regardless of where they are along the route

 

[reaperexpress]

Some more ridiculous streetcar stops are finally being removed tomorrow:

College & Clinton (143m from College & Grace, new stop spacing: 351m)

King & Trinity (141m from King & Parliament, new stop spacing: 300m).

Kingston & Walter (131m from Kingston & Main, new stop spacing: 309m)
[no picture]

Also, some stops at intersections without crosswalks are being consolidated at intersections which do have signals or pedestrian crossovers. For example Queen & Connaught and Queen & Woodward/Kent are being consolidated at Queen & Woodfield, which has a pedestrian crossover. Interestingly, Google Maps is currently showing both the stops which will be discontinued on the 13th simultaneously with the new stops which will be put into service on the 13th:

(captions added)

 

[Kitsune]

The streetcar drivers must not be enjoying there connaught ave stop being moved. Further, there is a case in the Beaches where they'll be a 400m gap between stops at Glen Manor and Beech.

 

[reaperexpress]

[...]There is a case in the Beaches where they'll be a 400m gap between stops at Glen Manor and Beech.

Interesting catch! It's 424 metres from Glen Manor to Beech, which is indeed quite far, especially for a route that's basically just local service at that point. Balsam Ave, which is halfway in the middle, has a pedestrian crossover so it looks like a stop could be established there if the local councillor were to allow the TTC to remove some parking spaces in favour of a streetcar stop.

 

[syn]

Wonderful way to keep things unclear, especially to their operators who are don't seem to know what the sign means.

Agreed - should be a lot clearer. The previous design was very useful as a pedestrian too - no room for ambiguity.

 

[Kevin Lynch]

Is there a document that describes all the streetcar (and bus) stop removals across the system? I checked recent Board meetings and didn't see anything. Is this the extent of the removals at this time?