News   Feb 07, 2023
 122     0 
News   Feb 07, 2023
 343     0 
News   Feb 07, 2023
 681     4 

TTC: Streetcar Network

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
18,584
Reaction score
17,575
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
TTC has talk about another yard to handle future cars that will not fit any of TTC current site and where do they find the land for it,

At this time there are 2 larger lots in Mimico that can handle a new yard and carhouse. The first one would require extending Kipling track north to New Toronto St and then 2 blocks to Sixteen St that is the smallest of the 2 sites that is current level and empty. The 2nd is at New Toronto St and Eight St that is current level and empty. Both would be larger than Roncesvalles and the largest would larger than Russell yard.

Getting tracks to the 2nd location has issues as there are 2 routes to do it. The first route is by Islington and the 2nd is by Eight St that will up sit the residence at Lake Shore.

Both yards would require more deadheading to/from routes other than Queen 501L
 

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
18,060
Location
St Lawrence Market Area
TTC has talk about another yard to handle future cars that will not fit any of TTC current site and where do they find the land for it,

At this time there are 2 larger lots in Mimico that can handle a new yard and carhouse. The first one would require extending Kipling track north to New Toronto St and then 2 blocks to Sixteen St that is the smallest of the 2 sites that is current level and empty. The 2nd is at New Toronto St and Eight St that is current level and empty. Both would be larger than Roncesvalles and the largest would larger than Russell yard.

Getting tracks to the 2nd location has issues as there are 2 routes to do it. The first route is by Islington and the 2nd is by Eight St that will up sit the residence at Lake Shore.

Both yards would require more deadheading to/from routes other than Queen 501L
I thought they were going to shift other things from Hillcrest on Bathurst and put more streetcar stuff there. The Yard already has track so they could avoid laying much more.
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
22,708
Reaction score
13,008
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
TTC has talk about another yard to handle future cars that will not fit any of TTC current site and where do they find the land for it,

At this time there are 2 larger lots in Mimico that can handle a new yard and carhouse. The first one would require extending Kipling track north to New Toronto St and then 2 blocks to Sixteen St that is the smallest of the 2 sites that is current level and empty. The 2nd is at New Toronto St and Eight St that is current level and empty. Both would be larger than Roncesvalles and the largest would larger than Russell yard.

Getting tracks to the 2nd location has issues as there are 2 routes to do it. The first route is by Islington and the 2nd is by Eight St that will up sit the residence at Lake Shore.

Both yards would require more deadheading to/from routes other than Queen 501L
I think you're thinking of the discontinued CP Rail Obico Yard, west of Kipling Station.
map_obico_yd1971.jpg

From link.

They are "thinking" (what is the smoke coming from?) about a new TTC subway yard for Line 2 and maybe a new bus garage to replace the current Queensway garage (Kipling & Evans).
man-head-smoking-problems-conceptual-shot-holding-hands-temples-looking-frustrated-smoke-coming-out-115174207.jpg

From link.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
18,584
Reaction score
17,575
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
I think you're thinking of the discontinued CP Rail Obico Yard, west of Kipling Station.
map_obico_yd1971.jpg

From link.

They are "thinking" (what is the smoke coming from?) about a new TTC subway yard for Line 2 and maybe a new bus garage to replace the current Queensway garage (Kipling & Evans).
man-head-smoking-problems-conceptual-shot-holding-hands-temples-looking-frustrated-smoke-coming-out-115174207.jpg

From link.
No and you are too far north of the areas. Drove by them a few days ago.
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
18,584
Reaction score
17,575
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
I thought they were going to shift other things from Hillcrest on Bathurst and put more streetcar stuff there. The Yard already has track so they could avoid laying much more.
Will never handle future needs. Hillcrest would be for 511 and 512 from my point of view.
 

max

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 7, 2018
Messages
246
Reaction score
484
Location
Turonno
How will they deal with the fact that this proposed yard has only one access to the rest of the system? Unless they build out tracks on the Queensway west of Humber loop, and build out the Lakeshore east on its own bridge over the Humber and link that to Dufferin Loop, there is no way back to the rest of the system without going through the KQQR intersection. That is unless they want to start backing vehicles into Roncesvalles Yard.

I recall an incident where there was scheduled construction on Queen and an issue happened on Gerrard that effectively prevented most of our streetcars from getting out for a morning, so I don't think such a disruption is unprecedented.
 

TRONto

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
May 25, 2017
Messages
674
Reaction score
855
It would be interesting if they would consider the St Clair / Keele area. An excuse to turn the Keele route into a streetcar route, possibly extend the Dundas streetcar and it should be more convenient than using Mimico
 

drum118

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 24, 2007
Messages
18,584
Reaction score
17,575
Location
Mississauga, where cars rule city growth
From my point of view, have recommended during EA meetings that a Queensway line be built, but push back by TTC and the City, but will happen some time in the future by them. Being involved with transit since 2004, I have heard a number of time of a Kipling Line from the Lake Shore to the subway, but have never seen any plans for it. Comes from TTC and elsewhere.

To put a line on Kipling requires rebuilding the RR underpass that is badly needed replacement now for trucks. From the Lake Shore to the Queensway, either single lane with ROW or widen it as well replace the overpass.

New Toronto street would have to be widen since this is a truck route.

Keele is wide enough for an ROW starting at the Queensway and would require the RR overpass to be rebuilt going north. Keele Riders would have to walk to the east entrance as there is no easy way to get streetcar to Kipling station.

Going east from Kipling Station on Dundas has been in TTC plan to connect to St Clair for decades and a lot longer than I been around. It will be a dog fight to do so as Dundas is narrow with on street parking that would become single lane. We know of the plan to get 512 to Dundas which was place on the back burner in 2008 as the City wanted to see how the new ROW for 512 would work over time. CP new underpass will be rebuilt with provision of the streetcar going under it.
 

smallspy

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
5,166
Reaction score
6,678
How will they deal with the fact that this proposed yard has only one access to the rest of the system? Unless they build out tracks on the Queensway west of Humber loop, and build out the Lakeshore east on its own bridge over the Humber and link that to Dufferin Loop, there is no way back to the rest of the system without going through the KQQR intersection. That is unless they want to start backing vehicles into Roncesvalles Yard.

I recall an incident where there was scheduled construction on Queen and an issue happened on Gerrard that effectively prevented most of our streetcars from getting out for a morning, so I don't think such a disruption is unprecedented.
Technically, that's no different than the current Leslie Barns. There is only a single access into and out of the facility - up and down Leslie. An accident along that stretch can (and already has) delay cars from entering service.

Dan
 

DSC

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 13, 2008
Messages
16,171
Reaction score
18,060
Location
St Lawrence Market Area
Technically, that's no different than the current Leslie Barns. There is only a single access into and out of the facility - up and down Leslie. An accident along that stretch can (and already has) delay cars from entering service.

Dan
The bottom line is really that there OUGHT to be multiple routes, yard entrances and detour possibilities but the practicality is that to do this would cost far more than dealing with the occasional blockage. The TTC is (and always will be) short of $$$, FAR better to spend it on infrastructure that will be used a lot!
 
Last edited:

smallspy

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
5,166
Reaction score
6,678
The bottom line is really that there OUGHT to be multiple routes, yard entrances and detour possibilities but the practicality is that to do this would cost far more than dealing with the occasional blockage. The TTC is 9and always will be) short of $$$, FAR better to spend it on infrastructure that will be used a lot!
You'll get no argument from me on any of those points.

But also keep in mind that there is projected to be a streetcar line along Commissioners at some indeterminate time in the future that would then give a second access to and from the Leslie Barns. That was part of the reason why they situated the facility there, and designed it in the manner that they did.

Dan
 

max

Active Member
Member Bio
Joined
Mar 7, 2018
Messages
246
Reaction score
484
Location
Turonno
Technically, that's no different than the current Leslie Barns. There is only a single access into and out of the facility - up and down Leslie. An accident along that stretch can (and already has) delay cars from entering service.

Dan
Oh I definitely think it's an issue with Leslie as well, though I didn't have specific knowledge of an incident there. Leslie does have a long term plan to be linked via Commissioners Street, but the fact that it isn't linked now is a precedent that I fully expect the TTC to repeat with this "New Toronto yard".

Leslie is at least a comparatively short stretch. With the distances to these yard locations I'd hope they would try to increase redundant trackage, at the very least in areas where there is no ROW possible to reduce disruptions both planned and unplanned.
 

Top