reaperexpress
Senior Member
That should be "You're" and "your", not "your" and "you".
It should read:
"You're blaming me for your inability to correctly use the English language?"
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TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)
- Thread starter LAz
- Start date
That should be "You're" and "your", not "your" and "you".
It should read:
"You're blaming me for your inability to correctly use the English language?"
Northern Magus
Active Member
Yawn. I guess you don't know what the word "record" means.
Oh, and in case you didn't notice, his slovenly approach to fact-checking meant he was roughly $10 bn off of last year's numbers and, to borrow his phrase, 100% wrong about Mulroney's.
So attention to detail musn't be your thing, huh?
Awwww, am we grammar letting they down?
Rainforest
Senior Member
The competition for funding between DRL, Sheppard subway, and Yonge North is a legitimate concern. And the substantial federal deficit certainly does not help, whether it "the largest in history" or "large but not as large as in Mulroney era".
That concern is only exacebrated by the fact that DRL, being the most essential of the three projects, has no real champion. In contrast, Sheppard is promoted by the Mayor's office, and Yonge North by the York Region Council.
IMO, the solution is to limit the scope of Sheppard expansion in this round. It is untenable to leave Sheppard East with no improvements at all, after it has been promised first LRT and then subway. However, a subway extension to Warden (about 3.5 km) combined with a median BRT from there to Markham Rd (the section of Sheppard scheduled for densification) and another median BRT up Warden (to connect to the Enterprise cluster in Markham) would noticeably improve the transit situation in the north-east, for about $1.6 - $1.8 B which is not a deal-breaker for DRL. Sheppard West (the Downsview link) can wait until after the first section of DRL is done.
That concern is only exacebrated by the fact that DRL, being the most essential of the three projects, has no real champion. In contrast, Sheppard is promoted by the Mayor's office, and Yonge North by the York Region Council.
IMO, the solution is to limit the scope of Sheppard expansion in this round. It is untenable to leave Sheppard East with no improvements at all, after it has been promised first LRT and then subway. However, a subway extension to Warden (about 3.5 km) combined with a median BRT from there to Markham Rd (the section of Sheppard scheduled for densification) and another median BRT up Warden (to connect to the Enterprise cluster in Markham) would noticeably improve the transit situation in the north-east, for about $1.6 - $1.8 B which is not a deal-breaker for DRL. Sheppard West (the Downsview link) can wait until after the first section of DRL is done.
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nfitz
Superstar
Absolutely true ... thanks for the edit, I'll go fix it.
However, it doesn't actually change the understanding of what I wrote - and I'm not getting my panties tied in a knot because they responded to what I wrote, instead of what I meant to write.
I have no idea what this means; perhaps you could try again in English. I still await your apology for not understanding the different between the current deficit, and the deficit from two years ago.
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reaperexpress
Senior Member
I agree that limiting the scope of Sheppard would be desirable, but I came to the opposite conclusion about which segment is the most palatable. The DRL is precisely the reason I prefer the western extension. Since the DRL will most likely go up Don Mills, the current Sheppard terminus is ideally situated where it could serve as an interchange between the DRL as well as the transfer point between Sheppard buses and the subway. This arrangement gives people an incentive to stay off the Yonge line because taking the DRL won't add an extra transfer: at Don Mills, they would have to transfer anyway.
The other reasons for preferring the western extension are basically the ones that have already been stated numerous times: easy yard access, no extra load on the Yonge line, greater impact in reducing transfers, etc.
Northern Magus
Active Member
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Rainforest
Senior Member
Indeed from the network connectivity standpoint, the Downsview link might be more useful than any eastern extension of the Sheppard subway.
But I think that Scarborough and eastern North York will make quite a fuss if such a decision is made. On the other hand, people living around Sheppard between Yonge and Dufferin already have decent transit options.
nfitz
Superstar
If that's an apology then, I accept.
Hopefully you've learned your lesson about being extremely rude to other people, and we won't see it again.
Northern Magus
Active Member
Now getting back on track....
Reaperexpress: It's still unknown just what route the next DCL will take, and whether or not it will correspond to the DRL of the early/mid 80s. I think there are some very compelling arguments against building subway tunnels beneath a surface rail route, although I agree that it will have to be U-shaped and linking with BD at least. Also remember that the longer it is, the less money left over for Shep.
Rainforest: I think you're on the right track, but I'd argue that the whole Shep extension needs to start out as a ROW BRT even before any subway construction. Not only to help sell out the proposed developments as quickly as possible, but as a practical matter since the construction will almost inevitably impinge on the road and sidewalks. However ... no way in hell do I see the Fords going for it, and as a result will make an even bigger mess of this -- should it ever actually take off.
Regarding your point about the DCL lacking a champion, I think the bigger problem is that Shep has the wrong champion. Ford has to be aware that this project is one of the bellwethers of his mayoralty. He promised to have it up and running by 2015: broken promise #1. He then promised that it would be built entirely by the private sector: broken promise #2. And now, except for one station, it probably won't will be built anytime in the next 20 years ... and built in a way that makes his objection to all the shovel-ready LRT projects seem pointless and pig-headed.
Personally, I'm waiting for him to shoot it in the foot even further. Whatever happens, it's tough not to think that it's going to turn into a huge, huge mess.
Reaperexpress: It's still unknown just what route the next DCL will take, and whether or not it will correspond to the DRL of the early/mid 80s. I think there are some very compelling arguments against building subway tunnels beneath a surface rail route, although I agree that it will have to be U-shaped and linking with BD at least. Also remember that the longer it is, the less money left over for Shep.
Rainforest: I think you're on the right track, but I'd argue that the whole Shep extension needs to start out as a ROW BRT even before any subway construction. Not only to help sell out the proposed developments as quickly as possible, but as a practical matter since the construction will almost inevitably impinge on the road and sidewalks. However ... no way in hell do I see the Fords going for it, and as a result will make an even bigger mess of this -- should it ever actually take off.
Regarding your point about the DCL lacking a champion, I think the bigger problem is that Shep has the wrong champion. Ford has to be aware that this project is one of the bellwethers of his mayoralty. He promised to have it up and running by 2015: broken promise #1. He then promised that it would be built entirely by the private sector: broken promise #2. And now, except for one station, it probably won't will be built anytime in the next 20 years ... and built in a way that makes his objection to all the shovel-ready LRT projects seem pointless and pig-headed.
Personally, I'm waiting for him to shoot it in the foot even further. Whatever happens, it's tough not to think that it's going to turn into a huge, huge mess.
nfitz
Superstar
One station ... that would be Willowdale I guess.
Northern Magus
Active Member
Ah, there's nothing more humourous than someone's obliviousness to irony. Or when someone on a high horse resorts to tampering with quotations.
In the interest of clarity, I'll reprint my post and its accompanying quotations in their entirety:
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nfitz
Superstar
Are you complete psychotic or something? You apologise, I accept, you then post about getting back on track. I ask a simple question, and you go all weirdo or something?? How does this have any relation to my question about Willowdale?
Northern Magus
Active Member
Not the sharpest knife in the drawer, are you?
Dan416
Senior Member
In the short-term I'd be fine with a western extension to Downsview aka Sheppard West station, and an eastern extension to Victoria Park (where the EA is already complete), along with a Willowdale station. That'd be about 5-6 stations (depending whether you count Downsview/Sheppard West as a "new" station or not).
Sheppard West
Bathurst
Senlac
Willowdale
Consumers
Victoria Park
Sheppard West
Bathurst
Senlac
Willowdale
Consumers
Victoria Park
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
I'm convinced that any eastern extension that doesn't take the line to a logical terminus (probably STC) would be wasteful. Don Mills is already well-equipped as a terminal station. Why pick up and move that a few kilometres east?
Either do it all in one phase or not at all.
As far as the DRL goes, the big test will be to see if this new council endorses the direction of the previous council, which was essentially that Metrolinx must prioritize construction of the DRL ahead of any extension of the Yonge subway line.
The amendment that set that direction was moved by Michael Thompson, who plays well with the mayor, and endorsed by a weird mish-mash of right/left councillors. Ford supported it, which is promising. Stintz did not.
Either do it all in one phase or not at all.
As far as the DRL goes, the big test will be to see if this new council endorses the direction of the previous council, which was essentially that Metrolinx must prioritize construction of the DRL ahead of any extension of the Yonge subway line.
The amendment that set that direction was moved by Michael Thompson, who plays well with the mayor, and endorsed by a weird mish-mash of right/left councillors. Ford supported it, which is promising. Stintz did not.