TTC: Sheppard Subway Expansion (Speculative)

[jje1000]

People seem to have this negative attitude toward developers...but who is building all the skyscrapers and other developments that are happening in this city that caused Urban Toronto to exist in the first place?

I agree with Rob Ford and I agree with the developers.

I sincerely hope Ford can bring these new revenue tools online and get the Sheppard subway (and DRL!) back on track.

No, they are speaking one side out of their mouths that they want subways, while whispering out of the other that they would rather not want to pay for them. They want the benefits of subways without the sting of the costs, and would rather foist it on Joe Taxpayer- this so vaguely reminds me of the Los Angeles of the 1940s.

 

[quicksilver]

This is hilarious! Surprise, surprise. Developers support subways as long as the taxpayers cover the bill and the developers get to keep all the added profits when their property values go up.

“Money follows good planning.” - Leo DelZotto, CEO of Tridel. He's speaking, of course, about money for himself.

With their lacky mayor's promotion of a white elephant subway in trouble, finally the "special interests" councilor Doug Ford alluded to at the February 8th meeting come scurrying out of their holes. Of course Leo DelZotto, CEO of Tridel, wants a subway. The 2,100 unit Metrogate community he's building just east of Kennedy would have its own special stop known in the Ford Subway Plan as Agincourt station. Local writers Mike Adler and Chris Hume have both noted how this 17 acre mega-development site is somewhat isolated from the Sheppard community to the north and Kennedy Commons area to the south. Were the place to have its own subway stop, immediately all the units become much more valuable to the developer. Margin baby margin!

It's one thing for developers to push for city infrastructure for their communities. That's waht they get paid for. It's unfortunate that Toronto has councilors like Norm Kelly, who represents the area, and a mayor that continue believe its Toronto's job to subsidize one of the city's biggest land developers. Essentially they are saying OK we'll tax Toronto and Ontario to pay for infrastructure transit planners say is unnecessary so you can charge more for your condos.

 

[M II A II R II K]

To save money on operating costs they should only run the Sheppard Line during peak hours only.

 

[UD2]

^^

political sucide

 

[Justin10000]

Mothball the Sheppard Line, just to see the Pro-Sheppard Line people head's explode.

 

[Rainforest]

Mothball the Sheppard Line, just to see the Pro-Sheppard Line people head's explode.

No councillor or TTC board member will vote for that.

 

[Justin10000]

No councillor or TTC board member will vote for that.

I know. I am just poking fun at the obsession with this line.

 

[Silence&Motion]

People seem to have this negative attitude toward developers...but who is building all the skyscrapers and other developments that are happening in this city that caused Urban Toronto to exist in the first place?

Oh poor developers. They're so hard done by. Here they are making sacrifices for the public good by building a bunch of skyscrapers so that people can join internet message boards and ogle over our expanding skyline, all the while having to take on the burden of enormous profits in North America's hottest real estate market. The least anyone can do to thank them is to refrain from any criticism of them whatsoever. Even if they are meeting secretly with our elected leaders to discuss public policy issues.

Seriously, there are good reasons for building subways. To fill the pockets of developers is not one of them. That aspect of the Sheppard subway expansion amounts to a negative income redistribution scheme where money is taken from the population as a whole through added fees and taxes, including those at the lowest income brackets, and used to subsidize the interests of the very rich. Or do you prefer to call them "job creators".

 

[JWBF]

I love these people/entities that have the "wants" of a young child... gimmie, gimmie, gimmie; the difference is these are supposedly adults.

I especially love that so many don't understand what the "public" in public transit means.

I just hope that transit on Sheppard does not get canned over these tantrums.

 

[rbt]

I especially love that so many don't understand what the "public" in public transit means.

This should be good. What does the "public" in public transit mean? I do agree that most people get it wrong.

Keep in mind Hong Kong (both rail and bus), Tokyo, Sydney, and various african cities jitney based public transit systems when you give your response.

 

[Palma]

I know. I am just poking fun at the obsession with this line.

If you are a low key councillor do you really thing with all thats going on and all the issues still to be tackled that at election time the average voter will know which councillor voted for what? Perhaps the high visible ones like Mammoliti who voted against the LRT on Finch

 

[Electrify]

Mothball the Sheppard Line, just to see the Pro-Sheppard Line people head's explode.

Didn't Giambrone and Miller consider that when their proposed taxes were first rejected by council?

At this point in time, I'd say it is actually not a bad idea. If there isn't the political will to extend Sheppard, or even run it up through a portal to operate on the surface (see sig for details), then maybe it would be best to axe the line altogether and run the LRT right across to Yonge.

---

On a different note, has there been any consideration of extending the subway line north along the 404? You could probably get away with cutting a stop at Van Horne, but at Finch you have Seneca College, at McNicoll, Steeles, and John there would be a mix of residential and office space around the station (at Steeles there are plans for a major redevelopment of the plaza there as well), and at Highway 7 you have connections to the Viva, the Beaver Creek office park, a small entertainment district, and I believe plans to add residential in there also.

It would allow for the Sheppard LRT to exist, while still allowing the subway to be more than a stub between nowhere and nowhere.

 

[Palma]

Didn't Giambrone and Miller consider that when their proposed taxes were first rejected by council?

At this point in time, I'd say it is actually not a bad idea. If there isn't the political will to extend Sheppard, or even run it up through a portal to operate on the surface (see sig for details), then maybe it would be best to axe the line altogether and run the LRT right across to Yonge.
Just what we need again, a subway further north.
---

On a different note, has there been any consideration of extending the subway line north along the 404? You could probably get away with cutting a stop at Van Horne, but at Finch you have Seneca College, at McNicoll, Steeles, and John there would be a mix of residential and office space around the station (at Steeles there are plans for a major redevelopment of the plaza there as well), and at Highway 7 you have connections to the Viva, the Beaver Creek office park, a small entertainment district, and I believe plans to add residential in there also.

It would allow for the Sheppard LRT to exist, while still allowing the subway to be more than a stub between nowhere and nowhere.

Just what we need, the subway to go further north

 

[BurlOak]

It was mentioned today on Steve Munro's blog that due to design and depth issues with the existing Sheppard subway any extension has to be cut and cover at least until well past the 404. It's too close to the surface to use a TBM. Then you're pretty much at Consumers where I suppose after the station you could dive down and start the TBM somewhere after VP.

I believe that poster has recanted - he mixed up Sheppard and Eglinton. He was unsure of how the line would go under the 404.

I wonder how much the TBM lauch site construction costs at Eglinton and Black Creek. This, and the extraction, are fixed costs that are needed if you tunnel 1 km or 5km.

I do not know what the maximum distance they can go is, but on Eglinton, they are using about 5 km (both from the West and East) to the extraction site.

 

[canmark]

The Globe and Mail: Doug Ford calls for a Toronto lottery or casino to pay for mayor's subway plan

Toronto Councillor Doug Ford says there is no way the mayor will bring back the hated vehicle registration tax to pay for subways, but discussions are underway about creating a lottery or casino in his own Etobicoke ward that would pump millions into transit expansion.

With a deciding vote on the future of Toronto transit less than a month way, Councillor Ford challenged his fellow politicians to start thinking "outside the box," about ways to finance the proposed $4-billion Sheppard subway expansion.