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TTC: Redesigning TTC Signage

Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I think YUS should be split in two. Otherwise it's just confusing which way a 1 Northbound train is going (is it going to Downsview or to Finch?)
Click to expand...

Agreed. I think this is most important on the destination signs for trains on the YUS - any southbound train should read UNION until it reaches Union, then switch to DOWNSVIEW or FINCH for the next northbound leg. This is seeing as Union makes far more sense as a destination for a southbound train in the mind of anyone looking at the destination sign for information (and most riders are probably riding southbound towards the downtown core as a final destination anyways).

That of course also brings up the point of why oh why the TTC uses a barely-legible-from-a-distance serif font without all-caps on the electronic destination signs on the TRs (as well as the interior "Next Station Is..." displays), but that's a different issue :p
 
I think that will make things only even more confusing, it will make people riding the "hump" think that they have to transfer at Union while they don't. It only adds to the confusion IMO.
 
The difficulty is only added to by the fact that signs at most YUS stations read "Southbound to Union" already.

Coruscanti Cognoscente said:
I think YUS should be split in two. Otherwise it's just confusing which way a 1 Northbound train is going (is it going to Downsview or to Finch?)
Click to expand...

^^Agreed.
 
I'd like to see Toronto go with Montreal's system. It is intuitive, simple, and functional, the best in the country hands down.

For those who don't know, here's Montreal's Metro map:
stm-metro-map.jpg


Each line has a colour and is referred to exclusively by its colour. 'Ligne Bleu', 'Ligne Orange', 'Ligne Vert', 'Ligne Jaune'. For platform signage the different directions are marked by their termini. At Lionel Groulx station, for example, the different platforms are marked 'Cote-Vertu', 'Montmerency', 'Angrigon', and 'Honore-Beaugrand'. Those first two have Orange-coloured signs, the last two have Green-coloured signs.

Toronto's is the only RT system in Canada that names lines after the streets they run under. Aside from Montreal's colour-coding, Calgary numbers its lines, and Edmonton & Vancouver give their lines distinctive names that don't really relate to where they run (Vancouver's are called 'Expo', 'Millennium', 'Canada', and 'Evergreen', Edmonton's are called 'Capital', 'Metro', 'Valley', etc.). Ottawa uses numbering for its Transitway system (although each Transitway segment technically has a name as well) and its future LRT network is going to use the Vancouver-Edmonton line naming system.
 
From the TTC's website on
New TTC signage, colour-coded line numbers to ease subway station navigation


at this link:

Line 1 is being applied to the Yonge-University-Spadina line; Line 2 to the Bloor-Danforth line; Line 3 to the Scarborough RT; and Line 4 to the Sheppard line. The TTC will apply lines five through seven to the future LRT lines approved and funded by Metrolinx to its wayfinding system. The now-under construction Eglinton-Crosstown line will become Line 5 when it opens. The numbers reflect the order in which a line was built.
Click to expand...

Currently we have


No mention is made to if we will be renumbering those bus routes, or if they will ignore the duplication entirely and live with it.

In New York City, the buses have a prefix letter in front of the bus route number (IE. M1 for the Fifth and Madison Avenue bus in Manhatten, Bx1 for Grand Consource in Bronx, B1 for Ocean Parkway/86 Street in Brooklyn).
 
The new signage looks good. Many think it's dumb, but it'll really go a long way towards improving the TTC image/ brand and make it easier of patrons to navigate IMO.
 
On the subway this morning I noticed that the in-car announcements now start with "Line 1 - Yonge University Spadina". Assume this is the start of a transition period to just the line numbers.
 
As for the plastering of the yellow and green circles with 1 and 2 all over the new signage, I worry that they can become rather ambiguous. The "Southbound 1" sign hanging over one of the Bloor Line platforms is a great example - it may be next to a stairwell advising passengers "this way towards southbound Line 1 trains" but it could just as easily be mistaken for "you are on a platform where the arriving trains will take you southbound on Line 1".
Click to expand...

I noticed this immediately! It's so goofy. The TTC really should just contract out the signage branding so they can get something TfL quality. The signage still has the same ambiguity problems as the old ones.

Since Northbound/Southbound becomes really impractical on a U shaped line, the wall signs could be implemented to say:

(#) (Street) (Direction)
To Destination | Next:

Examples:

(1) Yonge St Southbound
To Vaughan via Downtown | Next: Queen

(1) University Ave Southbound
To Richmond Hill via Downtown | Next: Osgoode

(1) Front St Northbound
To Vaughan | Next: St. Andrew

(1) Spadina Ave Northbound
To Vaughan | Next: St. Clair West

etc.

W. K. Lis said:
From the TTC's website on
New TTC signage, colour-coded line numbers to ease subway station navigation


at this link:



Currently we have


No mention is made to if we will be renumbering those bus routes, or if they will ignore the duplication entirely and live with it.

In New York City, the buses have a prefix letter in front of the bus route number (IE. M1 for the Fifth and Madison Avenue bus in Manhatten, Bx1 for Grand Consource in Bronx, B1 for Ocean Parkway/86 Street in Brooklyn).
Click to expand...

5 Avenue Rd can take the vacant 13.
6 Bay can become 136
7 Bathurst can take 27.
8 Broadview can take 18.
9 Bellamy can take 19

There's no missing 5 route until the 150s.

I would also rename the 97 the 1L (L for Local).
 
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While not perfect I think this is s big step forward for the TTC system. As 1over mentioned colours are probably the most intuitive system. I say that because watching my baby niece, colours are just more fundamental than numbers in the hierarchy of understanding.

The most interesting news I found is that Eglington / cross-town will be designated with a 5 and included in the "subway" map. The reason I say this is that I think it will render the subways versus LRT debate into the historical dust bin. Given our transit ridership numbers I wonder if part of Toronto's transit inferiority complex is about how the system is divided up and carved up jurisdictionally and by mode. These barriers matter and impact the effectiveness of the system to people psychologically and hence politically. Many if not most cities in the world run different sized vehicles and transit technologies on their subway or rapid transit map but integrate them together into the same network map. The technology, size of vehicle, frequency, or convenience of the service actually matter less in my opinion than the "feeling" you are serviced by the rapid transit network.

Take the Montreal metro map posted above as an example. If you were buying a house in Montreal what would matter more to you: being near to a station on the metro map, or what was the frequency and capacity of service on that metro line? The answer for me is that psychologically I would rather be on the metro line, even if the frequency of metro service ultimately rendered my commute no technically shorter than another location services only say by city bus.
 
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After reading people's comments on the re-design, it seems like people believe that the new signs were so expensive that they could've paid for a new subway.

You have comments like: "Why spend money on this when we could've spent that money to build the blah subway". I don't understand why there is an impression that these signs cost an astronomical amount.
 
TrickyRicky said:
While not perfect I think this is s big step forward for the TTC system. As 1over mentioned colours are probably the most intuitive system. I say that because watching my baby niece, colours are just more fundamental than numbers in the hierarchy of understanding.

The most interesting news I found is that Eglington / cross-town will be designated with a 5 and included in the "subway" map. The reason I say this is that I think it will render the subways versus LRT debate into the historical dust bin. Given our transit ridership numbers I wonder if part of Toronto's transit inferiority complex is about how the system is divided up and carved up jurisdictionally and by mode. These barriers matter and impact the effectiveness of the system to people psychologically and hence politically. Many if not most cities in the world run different sized vehicles and transit technologies on their subway or rapid transit map but integrate them together into the same network map. The technology, size of vehicle, frequency, or convenience of the service actually matter less in my opinion than the "feeling" you are serviced by the rapid transit network.
Click to expand...

Yup, for example the Boston transit map shows the Green Line on it, which is a partially underground partially at-grade LRT line like Eglinton.

People are always complaining that our rapid transit map is too small. A new 20km line on the transit map is a good step towards addressing that complaint.
 
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