TTC: Redesigning TTC Signage

[Contra]

Something I'd love to see in Toronto, as they do in London, is announcing tourist destinations at stations. For instance, "Next station is Union Station for connections to VIA Rail, Go Train, Harbour Front and CN Tower", or "Next station is interchange Station St George for change to the Bloor-Danforth line and Bata Shoe Museum".

For locals it's just an extra thing to hear everyday, but it was so helpful when I traveled abroad. Perhaps including into signs would be too much, however I like how you incorporated the GO and VIA logos into the signs you used. Wayfinding would be infinitely easier like that.

 

[gweed123]

Something I'd love to see in Toronto, as they do in London, is announcing tourist destinations at stations. For instance, "Next station is Union Station for connections to VIA Rail, Go Train, Harbour Front and CN Tower", or "Next station is interchange Station St George for change to the Bloor-Danforth line and Bata Shoe Museum".

For locals it's just an extra thing to hear everyday, but it was so helpful when I traveled abroad. Perhaps including into signs would be too much, however I like how you incorporated the GO and VIA logos into the signs you used. Wayfinding would be infinitely easier like that.

I've suggested this in the past too. It could also be a good revenue generation opportunity for the TTC. Some of the POIs (Union, the ROM, etc) are government-owned, but a lot of them (the HHOF, CN Tower, Rogers Centre, ACC, Eaton Centre, etc) are privately owned. The TTC could sell rights to those places same as they do advertising, although there would need to be criteria set up over what type of businesses can use that. The Eaton Centre sure, but no one really cares that Joe's Pizza is a block away from X station.

 

[drum118]

One thing you will find in Europe at stations is a route map for each platform showing all the stops along the line. All the stops that have been service by the direction are gray out with the remaining stops in bold print and colour. This allow the rider to know what platform to go to.

This allows riders to see what platform they have to go to to catch the train to get them to their stop. I found it very handy when I was trying to get to x place more times than enough.

Some of these signs would show connecting routes and numbers as well places at various stations along the line. Even on the metro/buse/trams you would see the next stop or stops being display showing the same thing in real time.

A fair number of stations would have a map showing the street layout as well point of interest ranaging from 5-15 minutes walking distance from the station.

Very few street guides showing this info can be found in Toronto today with a few new ones showing up last year. It helps people who don't know Toronto in the first place as to where they are and how to get there if more of these info post were up around the city or at stations and major connection point.

I thought I took photos of these signs, but can't find them at this time.

 

[Dan416]

One thing you will find in Europe at stations is a route map for each platform showing all the stops along the line. All the stops that have been service by the direction are gray out with the remaining stops in bold print and colour. This allow the rider to know what platform to go to.

This allows riders to see what platform they have to go to to catch the train to get them to their stop. I found it very handy when I was trying to get to x place more times than enough.

Some of these signs would show connecting routes and numbers as well places at various stations along the line. Even on the metro/buse/trams you would see the next stop or stops being display showing the same thing in real time.

A fair number of stations would have a map showing the street layout as well point of interest ranaging from 5-15 minutes walking distance from the station.

Very few street guides showing this info can be found in Toronto today with a few new ones showing up last year. It helps people who don't know Toronto in the first place as to where they are and how to get there if more of these info post were up around the city or at stations and major connection point.

I thought I took photos of these signs, but can't find them at this time.

Didn't someone post them in another thread?

Anyway, I agree with announcing POIs. But I really dislike the "Interchange station" moniker.

Many people have made suggestions on how to say it better, so I won't repeat them again.

 

[EnviroTO]

I don't know why we would want to invent signage. Why not use something more standard so symbols in Google Maps, airports, and other locations match the symbols of other places.

 

[Contra]

I've suggested this in the past too. It could also be a good revenue generation opportunity for the TTC. Some of the POIs (Union, the ROM, etc) are government-owned, but a lot of them (the HHOF, CN Tower, Rogers Centre, ACC, Eaton Centre, etc) are privately owned. The TTC could sell rights to those places same as they do advertising, although there would need to be criteria set up over what type of businesses can use that. The Eaton Centre sure, but no one really cares that Joe's Pizza is a block away from X station.

Is there a designation of a tourist space within Toronto? That would be a likely first step if not..or at least a set list of requirements for type of establishment (mall, market, museum, historical site, etc.). I agree there would be some incentive to invest in that, however I feel it shouldn't come to that. TTC is a method of travel and an established wayfinding system, be it signs or announcements, should come naturally.

 

[Contra]

I don't know why we would want to invent signage. Why not use something more standard so symbols in Google Maps, airports, and other locations match the symbols of other places.

Sorry for the double post.

Agreed. A Universal system of signage would be a utopian ideal. Seems far-fetched however with so many privatized systems.

 

[Johnny Au]

If major points of interest require their owners to pay for them, what about Yorkdale station? It is named after the shopping mall (even the neighbourhood is named after the shopping mall). How much would the TTC charge Oxford Properties to have the Yorkdale name for the station?

 

[mr24]

Hi, I'm OcadU student and doing TTC branding redesign project. I'm just thinking about if rename TTC, what's new name sounds good?

 

[mr24]

These are some proposal names for new TTC:
Metro Toronto, Tobe, Rizzz, Zoom, T.O, Ono, TO.RUN.TO, Toronto Underground, Pipe, Tonnel, Rapid Toronto, Link, Connection
Does anyone have any ideas for renaming?
Like viva, miway, zum, go...

 

[Wrenkin]

Sorry for the double post.

Agreed. A Universal system of signage would be a utopian ideal. Seems far-fetched however with so many privatized systems.

The colour and fonts used on signage is one thing, but the images quoted were from ISO 7001, which is an international standard for pictograms. There are also competing standards, like the US Department of Transportation. While obviously not "universal" in that there are competitors, they exist, and so the point is there's no real need to come up with our own pictures of subway trains if others are available.

 

[Catenary]

I agree that it seems redundant to design new pictograms, but I don't think just going with an international standard is necessarily better. It's all about conveying the message as effectively as possible, and to this end I think the pictograms have to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

My personal starting point is the USDOT list of pictograms, which were created to based on existing pictograms, and in many ways are similar to the ISO ones. Many of the DOT symbols are internationally recognized, and used widely in airports with lots of international travelers.

Here's a complete list of the symbols: http://www.aiga.org/symbol-signs/

Looking through the list there are some issues though, most noticeably when it comes to ail signage. Toronto has (or will have) four to six distinctive types of rail transit, each with it's own properties. Here's my count:

Subway
Streetcar
LRT (coming)
GO
UPX
Amtrak/VIA and potentially other intercity rail (ONR?)
And since there will be signage there, none of the pictograms can be confused with the Pearson Link Train.

There is only one rail icon in the DOT set, and three in the ISO set; Rail, Subway and Tram. Assuming we will need at least four pictograms (Subway, Streetcar, LRT and Heavy Rail) we come up short with both lists. The ISO rail pictograms come closest, but none of them really reflect anything in use in the area today. Therefore, there is a need for other logos, and in this case I think it would be best to go with the most widely recognized local symbols, those being Streetcar and Subway to start. These symbols are already in wide use locally, and clear enough that visitors should be able to pick it up quickly. This leaves LRT, for which a new or existing pictogram must be picked, as well as heavy rail, which is another issue altogether, especially since GO changed their logo a few years back so it no longer represents all types of rail.

I don't think we can jut pick a set of existing pictograms and say "use these" without examining them in detail.

 

[picard102]

Hi, I'm OcadU student and doing TTC branding redesign project. I'm just thinking about if rename TTC, what's new name sounds good?

Toronto Transit Commision

 

[Dan416]

I agree that it seems redundant to design new pictograms, but I don't think just going with an international standard is necessarily better. It's all about conveying the message as effectively as possible, and to this end I think the pictograms have to be evaluated on a case by case basis.

My personal starting point is the USDOT list of pictograms, which were created to based on existing pictograms, and in many ways are similar to the ISO ones. Many of the DOT symbols are internationally recognized, and used widely in airports with lots of international travelers.

Here's a complete list of the symbols: http://www.aiga.org/symbol-signs/

Looking through the list there are some issues though, most noticeably when it comes to ail signage. Toronto has (or will have) four to six distinctive types of rail transit, each with it's own properties. Here's my count:

Subway
Streetcar
LRT (coming)
GO
UPX
Amtrak/VIA and potentially other intercity rail (ONR?)
And since there will be signage there, none of the pictograms can be confused with the Pearson Link Train.

There is only one rail icon in the DOT set, and three in the ISO set; Rail, Subway and Tram. Assuming we will need at least four pictograms (Subway, Streetcar, LRT and Heavy Rail) we come up short with both lists. The ISO rail pictograms come closest, but none of them really reflect anything in use in the area today. Therefore, there is a need for other logos, and in this case I think it would be best to go with the most widely recognized local symbols, those being Streetcar and Subway to start. These symbols are already in wide use locally, and clear enough that visitors should be able to pick it up quickly. This leaves LRT, for which a new or existing pictogram must be picked, as well as heavy rail, which is another issue altogether, especially since GO changed their logo a few years back so it no longer represents all types of rail.

I don't think we can jut pick a set of existing pictograms and say "use these" without examining them in detail.

I'm not sure it's necessary to come up with icons for everything.

That said, GO already has an icon based on their trains, so that's sufficient to identify GO.

As for the TTC, they should just use the same icon for subway and SRT.

LRT and streetcar can use the same icon as well.

I think having 5 different icons would be needlessly confusing.

 

[car4041]

LRT and streetcar can use the same icon as well.

I don't know -- there's a very big difference between the Eglinton LRT and the Queen streetcar. I think something like the current streetcar icon is great for the legacy streetcar routes, because it looks almost but not quite like a bus, which pretty accurately describes the service. The Eglinton LRT, on the other hand, will essentially be a subway, and probably should be differentiated from the legacy streetcars.