TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[81-717]

Two questions pertaining to the Flexity Outlooks:

1) I went by Roncesvalles yard today and spotted car 4568 parked in the deadline. 4568 is the car that got a little too intimate with a garbage truck on St. Clair on July 26, 2022, and has been sitting out of service ever since. For most of that time since, it has been sitting outside, ever since they began the 8 year body rebuild program at Hillcrest. That's a lot of snow fall cycles. At what point does that amount of snowfall start to cause issues with the structural integrity of the vehicle's roof? I fully realize that these machines are built to withstand some amount of abuse, I'm just wondering how much is too much. I doubt that anyone is going up there and shoving the snow off.

2) Why is it that in the Flexity era, it takes so long to make a decision about repairing a vehicle? 4534 is another one that's been gone a long time - it had a collision on Queen Street on January 19, 2023. As far as we know from data compiled on the CPTDB, neither of these cars have had anything resembling repair work done to them yet. What is taking so long? I realize that repairs of damaged vehicles take time, but 3-3.5 years to not even decide if you're going to fix the car or not seems really excessive. In the CLRV era the turn around time on collision repairs was a lot faster.

I also wonder, if a car has been gathering dust while awaiting repairs for years on end, if that means it could/would retire that many years later than the rest of the fleet.

 

[T3G]

I also wonder, if a car has been gathering dust while awaiting repairs for years on end, if that means it could/would retire that many years later than the rest of the fleet.

Past experience seems to suggest not. John Bromley recorded that ALRV 4238 was out of service for a very long time, but that one was among the big group pulled from service in early 2018. Though I hope the two flooded cars will retire with the new order and not with the first one!

 

[smallspy]

Two questions pertaining to the Flexity Outlooks:

1) I went by Roncesvalles yard today and spotted car 4568 parked in the deadline. 4568 is the car that got a little too intimate with a garbage truck on St. Clair on July 26, 2022, and has been sitting out of service ever since. For most of that time since, it has been sitting outside, ever since they began the 8 year body rebuild program at Hillcrest. That's a lot of snow fall cycles. At what point does that amount of snowfall start to cause issues with the structural integrity of the vehicle's roof? I fully realize that these machines are built to withstand some amount of abuse, I'm just wondering how much is too much. I doubt that anyone is going up there and shoving the snow off.

View attachment 711734

Considering that the car structure is built strong enough to basically handle its own full weight on its roof - I would hazard a guess that the answer is "a lot".

2) Why is it that in the Flexity era, it takes so long to make a decision about repairing a vehicle? 4534 is another one that's been gone a long time - it had a collision on Queen Street on January 19, 2023. As far as we know from data compiled on the CPTDB, neither of these cars have had anything resembling repair work done to them yet. What is taking so long? I realize that repairs of damaged vehicles take time, but 3-3.5 years to not even decide if you're going to fix the car or not seems really excessive. In the CLRV era the turn around time on collision repairs was a lot faster.

Because there are far more Flexities available than is strictly needed for service. Because of that, they can afford to delay spending money on repairs to vehicles held out of service for long periods of time.

Compare this to the CLRVs, where their utilization rate was approaching 90% until the Flexities really started to get delivered in 2017 or so. There just weren't enough cars to go around for the service that they were running, and so they had to rush to get them back into service if they broke down or got damaged.

Dan

 

[DSCToronto]

Two questions pertaining to the Flexity Outlooks:

1) I went by Roncesvalles yard today and spotted car 4568 parked in the deadline. 4568 is the car that got a little too intimate with a garbage truck on St. Clair on July 26, 2022, and has been sitting out of service ever since. For most of that time since, it has been sitting outside, ever since they began the 8 year body rebuild program at Hillcrest. That's a lot of snow fall cycles. At what point does that amount of snowfall start to cause issues with the structural integrity of the vehicle's roof? I fully realize that these machines are built to withstand some amount of abuse, I'm just wondering how much is too much. I doubt that anyone is going up there and shoving the snow off.

View attachment 711734

2) Why is it that in the Flexity era, it takes so long to make a decision about repairing a vehicle? 4534 is another one that's been gone a long time - it had a collision on Queen Street on January 19, 2023. As far as we know from data compiled on the CPTDB, neither of these cars have had anything resembling repair work done to them yet. What is taking so long? I realize that repairs of damaged vehicles take time, but 3-3.5 years to not even decide if you're going to fix the car or not seems really excessive. In the CLRV era the turn around time on collision repairs was a lot faster.

The TTC currently has far too many streetcars, why spend $$ on repairing a few of them if they will then sit unused or under-used? Of course, one day they WILL need all of them and then they will not be able to catch up with these more major rebuilds. It's called "planning' at the TTC.

 

[T3G]

Considering that the car structure is built strong enough to basically handle its own full weight on its roof - I would hazard a guess that the answer is "a lot".


Because there are far more Flexities available than is strictly needed for service. Because of that, they can afford to delay spending money on repairs to vehicles held out of service for long periods of time.

Compare this to the CLRVs, where their utilization rate was approaching 90% until the Flexities really started to get delivered in 2017 or so. There just weren't enough cars to go around for the service that they were running, and so they had to rush to get them back into service if they broke down or got damaged.

Dan

Makes sense, thanks.

Would I be correct in assuming that this is the same reason that they haven't done anything yet with 4478 despite it being back since June?

 

[81-717]

Shutting down the core of the subway for over an hour at rush hour for a trespasser seems like another failure.

Another day, another shitshow (or as the french would say, "show de shit"). First a security incident at Wellesley (at least it cleared up quick), then another one at VP causing a service suspension from Woodbine & a backlog of trains holding all the way till Yonge. When it finally got moving, it was extremely slow the whole way, even as service to Kennedy resumed. Then service was suspended from Woodbine again due to "signal issues" / "track repairs" at VP, leaving people stranded on the train between Main & VP for like 30 mins. At this point, I could hardly blame anyone even if they decided to open the emergency exit, get off the train & walk the rest of the way through the tunnel along the tracks (at least to the nearest station), it'd be faster than this bs.

 

[Northern Light]

This morning, Line 2 went down from Warden to Woodbine due to rail issues.

They just finished the repairs in the last 30m or so.

The scene was chaotic and communication remained poor throughout, even now, as service has resumed, riders at Woodbine faced long delays for packed trains that took ages to board, and there was little if any communication to riders and no on-site organization to mitigate crowding.

What an embarrassing shambles

 

[Richard White]

This morning, Line 2 went down from Warden to Woodbine due to rail issues.

They just finished the repairs in the last 30m or so.

The scene was chaotic and communication remained poor throughout, even now, as service has resumed, riders at Woodbine faced long delays for packed trains that took ages to board, and there was little if any communication to riders and no on-site organization to mitigate crowding.

What an embarrassing shambles

I wonder what caused the damage?

 

[smallspy]

Would I be correct in assuming that this is the same reason that they haven't done anything yet with 4478 despite it being back since June?

Correct. And 4471 taking so long to be returned to the TTC as well.

Dan

 

[johntauren]

This morning, Line 2 went down from Warden to Woodbine due to rail issues.

They just finished the repairs in the last 30m or so.

The scene was chaotic and communication remained poor throughout, even now, as service has resumed, riders at Woodbine faced long delays for packed trains that took ages to board, and there was little if any communication to riders and no on-site organization to mitigate crowding.

What an embarrassing shambles

I've never seen a shutdown that hasn't been poorly communicated to passengers, and even sometimes staff in the stations aren't kept up to date what's going on.

 

[Northern Light]

I've never seen a shutdown that hasn't been poorly communicated to passengers, and even sometimes staff in the stations aren't kept up to date what's going on.

Its certainly all too common, and completely unacceptable.

 

[urbanclient]

Yes, in theory, there aren't that many RSZs but what is there to explain @6ixGod post and the minimum 7 minute slower than Google Maps ETA trip I experience from Union to North York Centre/Finch even with 0 RSZs northbound before the recent Union to King RSZ. And this is for trips that are NOT stuck holding at a station due to a real "delay" like a security incident.

The Line 1 trains are just plain slow, even outside the official RSZs. This is why I have repeatedly called these slow zones permanent RSZs. Case in point the entire above-ground Yonge section. A real delay where the train is stuck at a station only makes it worse (https://ttcdelayinsights.ca/).

I am tired of people citing Google Maps, the official TTC RSZ website, or the service summary. Please actually ride Line 1 more than 5 stops and you'll notice a longer than expected headway, and/or at least a longer than expected trip time. To those unfamiliar, the service summary lists theoretical headways at different times of day.

To explain how I feel when I see people pedantically repeat how theoretically-fast-and-definitely-not-delayed Line 1 is despite not riding it regularly, if ever, I am going to remix this post:

Bros on copium

["N-no ackshually guys the TTC is actually always on-time when there isn't a person on the tracks, trust me!111!!"]

---------
I think my slower than scheduled Line 1 / permanent RSZ experience has been vindicated by a former Line 1 operator:

https://www.reddit.com/r/TTC/comments/1pmytox/comment/nu5ozxn/

 

[nfitz]

---------
I think my slower than scheduled Line 1 / permanent RSZ experience has been vindicated by a former Line 1 operator:
View attachment 711935
https://www.reddit.com/r/TTC/comments/1pmytox/comment/nu5ozxn/

How do drivers rocket as fast as possible on Line 1 with ATC? This makes me suspect the origin of that "experience".

 

[Bojaxs]

---------
I think my slower than scheduled Line 1 / permanent RSZ experience has been vindicated by a former Line 1 operator:
View attachment 711935
https://www.reddit.com/r/TTC/comments/1pmytox/comment/nu5ozxn/

The TR trains are too heavy for the tracks they run on? This is the first time I'm hearing this. Very disappointing. Suddenly I'm no longer a fan of the TR trains.

Based on what that driver is saying, so long as the TR trains are in use, Line 1 will remain slow so as to not cause any further damage the tracks. Hopefully the TTC is cognizant of this when they placed their order for the new trains on Line 2 and they will be lighter.

After the Line 2 fleet is replaced, will we see the TR trains begin to be phased out and replaced with similar trains on Line 2?

 

[urbanclient]

How do drivers rocket as fast as possible on Line 1 with ATC? This makes me suspect the origin of that "experience".

Before the Toronto Rocket, the T-1s and H-series on Line 1 were indeed rockets by comparison. Do you not remember? The Toronto Rockets don't even hit 80 km/h, they're capped at 75 km/h... This is what they are referring to. If you opened that link you would see it's from a post from a very recent cab POV of St Clair West to Glencairn. If you search their post & comment history on their Top 1% r/TTC account, it's got plenty of cab views and a claim that they'll post Line 5 POVs after opening too. Stay tuned if you still question the veracity of their statements. Not the first time you've doubted TTC operators (or even accused them of lying, before outright personal attacks and inevitable mod intervention in the case of Priority 1 procedures...) Seriously, why bother discussing things on a forum, if actual TTC operators get shouted down and made to feel unwelcomed by rank amateurs.

Doubt all you want, but Line 1 hasn't operated at its theoretical scheduled speeds since the Line 3 derailment, and even then its theoretical average speeds are slower than its ATC-less predecessors. See how Line 2 is operated in comparison, total stationary time at empty stations can be as low as 8-10 seconds in my experience, and Line 2 is accelerated and braked much more aggressively. Line 1 is babied to keep maintenance costs down. Line 2 trains are pushed hard since they know they'll be replaced in 10 years or so. My recent timings of Line 1 have been 3 to 7 minutes late between Finch and Union.

The TR trains are too heavy for the tracks they run on? [...] Line 1 will remain slow so as to not cause any further damage the tracks. Hopefully the TTC is cognizant of this when they placed their order for the new trains on Line 2 and they will be lighter.

The stainless steel body panels should've been a dead giveaway Genuinely don't know what they were thinking going from aluminium to stainless steel, new ASME crash standards maybe? I doubt it though... Just sounds like typical Toronto transit ineptitude. Instead of meeting stricter standards with better design, they switch to heavier materials. See Williams F1 team as of late.