81-717
Active Member
I could be wrong, but wasn't the total price for the entire order somewhere around 2B, and ~700M being the 1/3 share from each level of government funding? Then it was revealed that 2B is the cost of 55, not 80?
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TTC: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter drum118
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DSCToronto
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Yes, the City & the Province had already signed up so only the Feds were missing.
Northern Light
Superstar
The global number was 62 trains, and still is............
55 from this investment.
7 are 'growth' trains to service the Line 2 extension, and are being fully funded Metrolinx.
The 80 number included 18 trains for Line 1 growth.
Those trains are currently unfunded, but may be picked up as part of the Yonge North Extension project, TBD.
Bojaxs
Senior Member
Just confirming, these trains are essentially upgraded Toronto Rockets, correct?
Northern Light
Superstar
In the sense that these will be open-gangway trains of standard TTC length, and made in Thunder Bay, yes.
There are some tweaks, mechanically and appearance wise.
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smallspy
Senior Member
What makes you think that they aren't?
Just because you don't hear about it doesn't mean that it doesn't happen.
Dan
81-717
Active Member
Because if they were, surely the STM and MTA wouldn't opt to keep the '73s and R68s around for another decade with their original chopper/SMEE technology, but rather have them replaced together with the '63s and R46s?
nfitz
Superstar
So what's the other $442 million for - that's hardly a small sum to brush aside?
It's still months to an election. It could be over year until the Conservatives are in the position to cancel things. I'd be shocked if the funding hadn't already been done and dusted by then.
It's an open tender isn't it? I'm not sure that Thunder Bay will have the price advantage it used to have, now that there's more competent financial management with Alstom.
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drum118
Superstar
You also have CCRR who has a plant on the east coast.
If it is a real open tender like it should be, a few other bidders will surface with CCF and Stadler in the US been part of the list. Since the builder of Ontario Line 3 trains is off shore and will be asked to bid on them as well.
Downside to all of this is replacing the existing signaling that needs to be shorter than Line 1 completion timetable
nfitz
Superstar
I don't know what CCRR is (other than the California Central Railroad). And CCF has been owned by Bombardier/Alstom for decades.
I'm not sure having them manufactured in the USA is going to fly - especially in the age of Buy America. I'd think that Canadian content requirements would result in at least final assembly being in Canada; if not Ontario.
Undead
Senior Member
drum118
Superstar
That should be CRRC and CAF. What I get for trying to do 3 things at the same time
Ottawa LRV's were assembly in Ottawa after been built oversea. Same most likely happen for the Ontario Line 3 cars and can see it happing on the subway cars to a point..
nfitz
Superstar
CAF I can see if they have an Ontario assembly facility.
I really don't see us ordering trains from the Chinese government. Especially as the political situation worsens, and will likely worsen even more if the Conservatives get elected, and with the inevetible invasion of Taiwan.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
CRRC doesn’t really have a stellar reputation given all the issues they’ve had with the orders they do have in North America. The worst is probably the Philadelphia bilevel commuter car order.
Bojaxs
Senior Member
My mistake. I misunderstood this announcement. I was under the impression that Alstom already got the contract, and that Thunder Bay was going to manufacture these trains, but it appears that's not the case.
I thought these schematics were confirmed for what the trains would look like on Line 2.