Yes, that is. It’s going down the road of Holocaust discussions that is pulling us off track.
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TTC: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
Amare
Senior Member
What's this, Rick Leary's first press conference ever? Congrats that he's finally figured out that part of his job.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
Now are these officers going to be all over the system and visible or just chat in the break room at select stations? Because that’s what they said about safety officers and many were doing the latter according to those who work the frontline at the TTC.
Richard White
Senior Member
After the incident at High Park there has been a cruiser parked here regularly. They just sit inside the break room until they are needed.
Personally, I would rather see them riding the network. Realistically though, it would be impractical to have officers on every bus, train and streetcar.
APTA-2048
Senior Member
They don’t need to be on every vehicle, but they need to be visible across the system. I don’t see why they cannot be assigned a specific zone where they ride and walk the system making sure no one is being violent.
Honestly, Metrolinx has figured this out. I’ve seen Transit Safety at random stations and at random times on the train just walking and observing. It would go a long way to make people feel safer.
Sitting in your car doing nothing is lazy and unhelpful.
Deadpool X
Senior Member
One more person shot today on TTC - https://toronto.ctvnews.ca/person-i...a-firearm-at-toronto-subway-station-1.6247434
picard102
Senior Member
80 seems light.
Amare
Senior Member
Assuming there's 2 officers per station, that's enough to cover 40 of the TTC's 75 stations. Apparently there's already officers sprinkled around the system, so depending on the amount of police in the system already about 3/4th of the stations would be covered (assuming there's 40 officers in place now).
But again deploying officers isnt going to fix the underlying issues, and it's not going to stop the incidents from happening. It's a cute knee jerk reaction.
But again deploying officers isnt going to fix the underlying issues, and it's not going to stop the incidents from happening. It's a cute knee jerk reaction.
Jonny5
Senior Member
The math requires those 80 officers to work 16 hour days, unless you want only one per station on shifts? Even then, it still seems not workable. I don't think you can get them for even six hours per day since they would require log in and out time, lunch breaks, etc...
picard102
Senior Member
People want a fix for the immediate issue of daily random violent attacks on the TTC, not five years from now.
TTCdinosaur
New Member
Agreed. Continuing to describe is as a “systemic” issue has just stalled problem solving. The TTC need to improve its role in this.
nfitz
Superstar
There is some truth to this, for a few. Especially if the province isn't willing to spend the same amount of money they spent to institutionalize people. Deinstitutionalization was supposed to come with a lot of extra support.
How much does it cost to institutionalize someone? More than a prison - which is about $130,000 a year.
Shouldn't then there be $100,000 entering the system somewhere for each person de-institutionalized (and still save money)? That's a lot of security, counsellors, basic income, drugs, etc. And security in the TTC. Though I bet we wouldn't need the extra security if they'd done the other stuff.
The issue isn't deinstitutionalization - it's that the Ontario government has failed to provide the promised support.
But that being said - that's really a very small minority of those. Living on the street (and streetcar) wouldn't change. Teenagers swarming people wouldn't change (which seems to be at least 12 of the attacks we've seen in recent weeks). People who have no history, and haven't done anything previously concerning wouldn't change. And if you wanted to put all those folks in as well - then that's far more money that would have to be spent.
We should start executing the mentally ill, to save money? Really? I'd think anyone who actually believed that, would be on the top of the list for reinstitutionalization.
Perhaps we could start executing all the TTC passengers as well - that would reduce the city budget by a $billion or so.
Keep in mind, that those Ontario numbers include education tax, not just municipal tax. If you remove that from the numbers, the cities in the other provinces are closer. And Toronto would go down more, as even if Toronto houses costs more Barrie, they pay the same education tax rate - making a lot more education tax being paid in Toronto being non-municipal compared to many other Ontario municipalities.
For one shift. Say 40 hours of a 168-hour week.
To cover 168-hours a week and 2 together, you'd need 300 for 75 stations. Probably more if people take vacations, statutory holidays, sick days, training, and don't spend 42 a week on-site!
But again deploying officers isnt going to fix the underlying issues, and it's not going to stop the incidents from happening. It's a cute knee jerk reaction.
Cambry Ardship
New Member
Overall, the crime severity index in Toronto has declined by almost half in the past 20 years, from 80.0 in 2001 to 45.5 in 2021. (Source). In the meantime, the Toronto Police Service operating budget has increased from $573.8 M in 2001 (Source) to $1,076.2 M in 2021 (Source).
So if the rate of criminal acts has truly increased in the TTC recently, and this is not a statistical blip, why the TTC, specifically? Have other transit systems seen similar increases?
Given the very big decline of policing effectiveness in terms of dollars spent per crime severity index point, I'm not sure that points to a solution of simply having more officers, given the random and unpredictable nature of these acts.
So if the rate of criminal acts has truly increased in the TTC recently, and this is not a statistical blip, why the TTC, specifically? Have other transit systems seen similar increases?
Given the very big decline of policing effectiveness in terms of dollars spent per crime severity index point, I'm not sure that points to a solution of simply having more officers, given the random and unpredictable nature of these acts.
allengeorge
Senior Member
The MTA had a spate of incidents late last year. People pushed onto tracks, assaults, etc. The TTC’s seem worse - or maybe I’m just way more tuned into them.
At any rate, people were paranoid about riding the subway - and that’s really saying something given what New Yorkers will put up with. The mayor finally had to get the NYPD onto a ton of stations. You can see a pair of cops in the platform on a lot of lines.