TTC: Other Items (catch all)

[gabe]

It is a serious concern.



Good! (that they are charged); several more should see the same.



There were swarming attacks in greater numbers 30 years ago. Every generation laments 'Kids these days' or 'Where are the parents'.

While in some cases, no doubt, bad/negligent parenting may be a factor; it has been ever so.

I don't think there is any indication its worse now than a generation prior. After all, the homicide rate and shootings are not only at 5-year lows, but much lower today than they were when most UT'ers were young adults!

Which is not to in anyway minimize the current spate of incidents, particularly on the TTC; which seems to be some mixture of mental illness, along with some mal-adjusted teens and their would-be copycats.

We need most of all need to address the mental illness side of things with far more treatment available at no-cost, virtually on-demand (no deferring needed intervention); with greater outreach to those that may need help.

For the mal adjusted teens, enforcement with some meaningful consequences is in order; and if there is any evidence of one particular social media platform or one or two particular high schools where things are uniquely out of hand, then appropriate intervention is required.

Well It's lot different today. It's a combination of poor parenting and schools are now too afraid to discipline youngsters for fear of retaliation from the woke crowd.

 

[Northern Light]

Well It's lot different today. It's a combination of poor parenting and schools are now too afraid to discipline youngsters for fear of retaliation from the woke crowd.

Evidence please. Anecdotes and assumptions don't make for good public policy.

Violent crime as rate has been in steady decline for a generation or more; on its face, this does not support your argument. But I'm happy to entertain a different view if you can show what facts support it.

 

[Sunnyside]

A better anecdote might be that society is more uneasy now than in my living memory. I’m quite young, but there is a heightened sense of restlessness, fear, and unease in everyone. For many, including me, it probably feels like a new world (post-COVID). And with that, social problems bubbling under the surface are rearing their head.

I can’t help but think that many people ask themselves “what do I have to lose now?” And the answer isn’t much, especially if they get away with it.

 

[Deadpool X]

A woman was stabbed multiple times on the 510

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toronto/stabbing-streetcar-toronto-ttc-1.6724461

One of the reasons why some people drive to downtown while we blame them for creating congestion.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Looks like another unprovoked knife attack! Another case of some crazy person went nuts and stabbed some poor innocent person. That could have been you or me or any other TTC rider. Scary sh**

Another seemingly insane attacker. I’m beginning to see the value in Minority Report. As badly as that ended.

 

[Undead]

A better anecdote might be that society is more uneasy now than in my living memory. I’m quite young, but there is a heightened sense of restlessness, fear, and unease in everyone. For many, including me, it probably feels like a new world (post-COVID). And with that, social problems bubbling under the surface are rearing their head.

I can’t help but think that many people ask themselves “what do I have to lose now?” And the answer isn’t much, especially if they get away with it.

I think it's pretty well documented that everyone got angrier and less trustful of others/institutions during covid. Looks like taking away people's livelihoods and social lives, locking them up for no reason at home and the media pumping them full of fear every day was a bad idea. Who would have thought.

 

[Admiral Beez]

One of the reasons why some people drive to downtown while we blame them for creating congestion.

I think I’ll just walk. I have a meeting near the Westin Harbour Castle on Thursday. If the snow doesn’t show it’s a 45 min walk from my house. Less on bikeshare. I’ll take my chances on foot or cycle before I chance the nuthouse and squat that is the TTC.

 

[TTCdinosaur]

I think I’ll just walk. I have a meeting near the Westin Harbour Castle on Thursday. If the snow doesn’t show it’s a 45 min walk from my house. Less on bikeshare. I’ll take my chances on foot or cycle before I chance the nuthouse and squat that is the TTC.

The leading indicators were clear, but like most anglo bureaucracies, we prefer for wait for lagging indicators (I.e., people stabbed or killed) so we have enough data to think about maybe, possibly, doing something.

My choice to bike in warm weather and drive and Uber in winters looks better every day. This system is an embarrassment.

Your plate of exceptionally slow streetcars and detours now comes with a side of violence.

 

[T3G]

I wasn't convinced by the hysteria in 2022 - the data didn't seem to support it - but I'm convinced now. We're literally at the point of an attack a day, far far and away worse than the worst 2022 had to offer.

Has someone opened a portal to the Upside Down underneath Toronto?

 

[TTCdinosaur]

I wasn't convinced by the hysteria in 2022 - the data didn't seem to support it - but I'm convinced now. We're literally at the point of an attack a day, far far and away worse than the worst 2022 had to offer.

Has someone opened a portal to the Upside Down underneath Toronto?

Glad it took people dying and getting hurt to convince you. What are some human lives for the sake of data.

This is why trust is eroding in policy-makers or the "management" folks. They get hurt while you wait for data.

 

[T3G]

Glad it took people dying and getting hurt to convince you. What are some human lives for the sake of data.

This is why trust is eroding in policy-makers or the "management" folks. They get hurt while you wait for data.

Sorry, but a few high profile violent incidents does not a trend make. Toronto has always had a few of these going on.

The TPS' own data does not seem to suggest the violent crime rate for 2022 was anything but average for the last few years. It's nice of you to sit here and rub it in our faces that you were right, but at no point during the calendar year of 2022 did the data support your assertions, so some humbleness would not go amiss.

 

[Northern Light]

A better anecdote might be that society is more uneasy now than in my living memory. I’m quite young, but there is a heightened sense of restlessness, fear, and unease in everyone. For many, including me, it probably feels like a new world (post-COVID)

Perhaps. I don't know how we would measure such a thing properly, but I'd caution that there have been bad recessions before, major layoffs before, housing bubbles before, and far worse levels of crime. I don't mean the preceding in the context of some great sweep of history, but rather entirely within the time frame of 1989-present, or about the last 35 years.

So I would approach that with some caution.

I think its fair to say that there is rising homelessness, and serious affordability challenges for sub-middle income groups in society; and to a lesser degree (more annoyance as oppose to serious challenge) for the middle income groups as well.

That and a pandemic having just passed (more or less) certainly could leave some fatigued/wary/worried; but I don't get the sense of this being unprecedented writ large; and certainly don't see factual evidence for that.

There is evidence that the TTC has had a material upturn in serious incidents (though perhaps a bit less than one might expect); running about double in the second half of 2022 over the comparable period a year prior.

Far too much, to be sure; but perhaps less than one might think from the media.

I can’t help but think that many people ask themselves “what do I have to lose now?” And the answer isn’t much, especially if they get away with it.

Again, I'm not sold on this.

1) The majority of incidents which we've heard of lately appear to involve people who are genuinely mentally ill; not people rationally weighing out the virtue of pushing someone on the tracks or stabbing a stranger.

2) The two high profile swarming incidents involving teens don't seem particularly rational either. These are not armed robberies or car thefts in search of sudden riches; nor so far as we know are they impulsive acts of revenge.

As for getting away with it, so far the entire group of teens who were involved in murdering the homeless man have been arrested, which happened literally with an hour of the incident for many or all of them, most, last I heard, remain in custody.

The latest incident, on the TTC at Kennedy, has resulted in 4 arrests thus far, and I expect more are coming.

I don't see that as the basis for rationally believing that one won't get caught, or has nothing to lose.

****

We frankly need to see more evidence on this latter pair of incidents before drawing conclusions.

***

To return to the question of mental illness, we don't need more evidence to know that there are too many people out in the community who are clearly in need of psychiatric care. That care, for some, indeed likely many, must take the form of institutional care (in patient) for a period of time; for a few, perhaps for the rest of their days.

We need more inpatient mental heathcare beds, both long and short term, probably measuring to several hundred for the GTA alone; and evidence suggests we've seen similar problems in other Canadian communities (notably in the lower mainland of BC); where just that decision is now being taken by their new Premier.

Ours needs to likewise step up on this file.

 

[Deadpool X]

I think it's pretty well documented that everyone got angrier and less trustful of others/institutions during covid. Looks like taking away people's livelihoods and social lives, locking them up for no reason at home and the media pumping them full of fear every day was a bad idea. Who would have thought.

The other option was let people free and kill a few hundred thousand more. I think a few deaths is still a better outcome.

 

[nfitz]

I think it's pretty well documented that everyone got angrier and less trustful of others/institutions during covid. Looks like taking away people's livelihoods and social lives, locking them up for no reason at home and the media pumping them full of fear every day was a bad idea. Who would have thought.

That's a heck of an assumption. The homeless and mentally ill on the streets was an rising issue before Covid.

To suggest it's bounceback from lockdown is a big leap. It could just as much be that the overloaded healthcare system hasn't been able to cope with such individuals - who are less likely to wait 12-hours in emergency!

I think I’ll just walk. I have a meeting near the Westin Harbour Castle on Thursday. If the snow doesn’t show it’s a 45 min walk from my house. Less on bikeshare. I’ll take my chances on foot or cycle before I chance the nuthouse and squat that is the TTC.

And yet 2/3 of the recent murders that we are discussing here, have been on the sidewalk, not on transit.

 

[TTCdinosaur]

Some more interesting data: https://www.blogto.com/city/2023/01/reasons-people-toronto-prefer-driving-public-transit/