Undead
Senior Member
Can you take this green BS to another thread?
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TTC: Other Items (catch all)
- Thread starter drum118
- Start date
TTCdinosaur
Active Member
So given that the downtown is dead and will never recover to pre-pandemic status, why are we still investing in transit in the same old ways? How will we repurpose the TTC in a better way? Certainly car ownership is up and may people who live downtown now drive. So aside from pumping more money into a dying institution, what do transit experts propose?
Northern Light
Superstar
What an entirely preposterous statement for which you have absolutely no evidence. Strange first post.
As your underlying premise is unsound; there is no useful reply to be given.
TTCdinosaur
Active Member
Okay. What a strange elitist approach.
Anyways. We know downtown foot traffic is down 46%. We know wfh is here to stay with max around three days a week in office and we know TTC ridership still hasn’t recovered.
These are things we know.
smallspy
Senior Member
Foot traffic is down 45% right now when compared to pre-COVID, sure.
But there is no indication that it will be staying there in the long term. There are a lot of companies who are planning on going back to or increasing the amount of in-office attendance starting in the new year.
Right now, it seems as if the only industry that is looking at any sort of long-term WFH package is Government, and that is a pretty small proportion of the currently occupied office space in downtown Toronto.
Dan
Undead
Senior Member
The social benefits of transit go way beyond merely shuttling commuters to crappy offices. But we absolutely must add more midday, evening, weekend and holiday service.
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Northern Light
Superstar
There is nothing 'elitist' in what I said, or how I said it.
The premise you put forward was very extreme to the point of being provably untrue with little effort.
If you had said something more moderate, there may have been a useful conversation to be had.
"Downtown is Dead" Is not true today; what is true is that worker count and foot fall are down materially.
If you went down to the Eaton Centre over the holidays, it was packed. If you attended a Leafs game, same deal; if you visited one of the downtown supermarkets, you would have seen long lines and high traffic, to the point where more supermarkets are now being built with 3 due to open in the next 18 months.
This part, we arguably know.
This part we most certainly do not know. Your conclusion is premature.
The TTC is at 69% of pre-pandemic ridership as at the first week of December.
From: https://ttc-cdn.azureedge.net/-/med...8055352&hash=D3DF6A6AF744C6117123DF471C801AA8
While still low, its hardly apocalyptic.
Its worth adding that very poor GO Service levels and lesser TTC service levels are contributing factors; which one would hope will be fully resolved by the close of 2023.
Downtown Toronto will add over 10,000 residents this coming year.
It will almost certainly add employment as well.
The notion of 'repurposing' the TTC is utterly bizarre in that context.
****
We don't have exact data in yet, but I'm told Retail footfall/sales in downtown is also higher since that report you quoted which used Sept' 22 data; if you extracted the PATH-based numbers, it actually looks pretty good, as the PATH is far more effected than is main-street retail.
That's not to suggest there aren't headwinds. Indeed, there are.
There certainly seems to be a probable shift to greater off-peak transit service vs peak.
I do expect WFH will have some lasting structural effect, though less than many seem to think. But I anticipate this will be almost entirely offset by employment growth.
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T3G
Senior Member
To add to the above: even if downtown were never to recover, referring to transit as a dying institution is absolutely ludicrous. There are so many more places transit runs than just downtown. The jam packed buses running around in Etobicoke or Scarborough certainly don't point me to an institution that is dying.
Johnny Au
Superstar
dowlingm
Senior Member
Even accepting the essential premise of your statement for the sake of a constructive end to 2022, the reality is that what COVID demand reduction has done is thrown a lifeline to a transit network which was a decade, or multiple decades, behind demand growth - particularly Yonge/Bloor station. We are also seeing some parts of the system recover to much nearer prior demand.
As for car ownership being up - you provide no statistics for this. Given the growth in the city and regional population, it is quite possible that cars/100k pop are not increasing. New developments have less parking.
If there is a problem with transit planning in Toronto it is that the provincial government is planning a large chunk of that transit, and now developments nearby too, with little contribution from municipal government until plans are set in political concrete.
Coolstar
Senior Member
New LCD designs.
Northern Light
Superstar
Good.
Now to get a variation of these installed at every single bus/streetcar stop without exception. Lower priority, but still a nice-to-have to see these in multiple locations on each subway platform as well. Next 3 trips, destination, next station. Finally, on subway rolling stock as well, once new stuff shows up.
Amare
Senior Member
It only took them what ~4 years?
Congrats to our oh so amazing management at the TTC to the job well done...that is when we actually see these on displays on buses.
Steve X
Senior Member
At least they finally can put this into proper use. Although why don't they put the current time on the screen. It's not like everyone has a (charged) phone/watch.
Richard White
Senior Member
So apparently Union was a s***show just after the Fireworks yesterday.
I was on Reddit and found this image which clearly shows a very dangerous situation.
It has me wondering, at what point is a subway station and in this case also the Moat evacuated for safety reasons?
Seeing this picture makes me wonder what would happen if someone pulled a weapon or a fire broke out.
There needs to better crowd control measures. If the worst had happened alot of people would have died last night.
I was on Reddit and found this image which clearly shows a very dangerous situation.
It has me wondering, at what point is a subway station and in this case also the Moat evacuated for safety reasons?
Seeing this picture makes me wonder what would happen if someone pulled a weapon or a fire broke out.
There needs to better crowd control measures. If the worst had happened alot of people would have died last night.