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TTC: Other Items (catch all)

My experience is patchy. Do not believe the assurances of drivers. If you don't have to tap, don't. I've been charged *three times* in one shuttle trip for a 504 that looped at Sunnyside, charged again getting on a 504 that continued up to Dundas West, but was then in an accident on Roncesvalles. Shuttle bus came, (about half an hour later, I could have walked up in ten mins) and I was charged again. Trying to get through to the TTC was hopeless. I gave up, and cheated twice thereafter to get my money back.

Bottom line: Always check your Presto account on-line. The system is far from perfect, albeit trying to get things straightened out is often not worth the half an hour you spend playing silly phone games with agencies continually throwing the ball into someone else's court. Just become aware of where things glitch, and use your own system to get around it happening next time, and if anyone tries to call you on it, give them a mouth full, and a challenge: "Take me to court". They will lose when a JP or Justice hears what you've been through.
TTC clearly says not to tap a second time if short-turned, etc. Drivers seldom seem to know what they are talking about.

I've not had problems reaching a person on the telephone at 416-393-3030, unless I've tried to call them shortly before they close.
 
TTC clearly says not to tap a second time if short-turned, etc. Drivers seldom seem to know what they are talking about.

I've not had problems reaching a person on the telephone at 416-393-3030, unless I've tried to call them shortly before they close.
I've had successive problems reaching TTC by phone. And I've had problems being charged twice when taking shuttles! (506, changing at Lansdowne on last year's shift from/to streetcars taking the Dundas diversion)
 
I've had successive problems reaching TTC by phone.
Odd. I had something I'd been meaning to call them about for a few days, so I called in at 11:53 AM - which is probably a lousy time to call. And indeed I was on musical hold for 7 minutes - which is slower than usual. But far better than how long it gets to get a hold of Rogers these days!

And I've had problems being charged twice when taking shuttles! (506, changing at Lansdowne on last year's shift from/to streetcars taking the Dundas diversion)
It's designed to charge you twice ... well until August when the 2-hour transfer takes hold (finally!). So it's doing it's job. There was no attempt to implement anything not to charge people twice - which is why the website says to not tap on a second time!

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I learned the hard way that this applies on th 504 diversion runs as well. Seems some (all?) of the 503 cars known as 504B these days are 504 in Presto and tapping from a 504 short turning at distillery and then onto a 504B (aka 503) heading up to Bingham results in a double charge.
 
As it happens, I had to call TTC today to address a Presto issue. Took me twenty minutes of cycling back and forth between TTC’s automated phone system and Presto’s before I finally got a live and receptive voice at Presto, who very helpfully transferred me to the TTC customer serice, who then transferred me to the right desk. Try to find anything on TTC’s web site or its main switchboard automated greeting that says exactly who to call to address a fare concern..... lost cards, metropass, yes, but no “if you have a fare concern” category.

Anyway, the somewhat skeptical TTC voice didn’t know that the 501 Queen car loops at Humber, and that a transfer to the 501 Lakeshore car is not a short turn reboard, and yes you are supposed to tap on the second car when you board at Humber. (my subsequent transfer to the 66B never showed up at all in my transaction summary, but that’s a different story)

Anyways, I got my $3, but it was not a smooth process.

- Paul
 
Odd. I had something I'd been meaning to call them about for a few days, so I called in at 11:53 AM - which is probably a lousy time to call. And indeed I was on musical hold for 7 minutes - which is slower than usual. But far better than how long it gets to get a hold of Rogers these days!

It's designed to charge you twice ... well until August when the 2-hour transfer takes hold (finally!). So it's doing it's job. There was no attempt to implement anything not to charge people twice - which is why the website says to not tap on a second time!

View attachment 148948
Where on there does it mention "shuttles"?
 
I learned the hard way that this applies on th 504 diversion runs as well. Seems some (all?) of the 503 cars known as 504B these days are 504 in Presto and tapping from a 504 short turning at distillery and then onto a 504B (aka 503) heading up to Bingham results in a double charge.
Exactly.

What I've learned is to disregard all they tell to do or not do. Tap on once, and within that two hour grace, don't tap again. It only exposes you unnecessarily to the shortcomings of *their* system. It's not yours, It's *theirs*. They don't like it? Take it to court. In fact I've been waiting for exactly that conversation with fare checkers, but when they see a tap on payment within the last two hours, they don't even dare to bring up the subject, coz they know that persons like myself will be a nightmare for them if they proceed to prosecute.

I'm not willing or can I afford the time to be stuck on someone's Mickey Mouse phone play game just to get the shaft with no recourse. Or having to bend over and take it from behind to get my freakin money back.

They know damn well in a face to face, they'd be a hell of a lot more civil.

Just got off the streetcar less than half an hour ago, with bike and dog. Always take the routes with the new streetcars because getting on and off is a hell of a lot easier with no post splitting the exit doors. Whatever, spending so much time on the Flexities, one can't help but notice the huge number of persons struggling to make the ticket and Presto machines work.

Many of these folks are incredibly honest people flustered beyond their comprehension. I have to interject to them: "Do you have a smart or cell-phone? Take a picture of the screen. If anyone asks for 'proof of payment' show them you've tried on both machines and neither of them work". Only a few can allow themselves to believe the onus is on the Operator to make the system work, not the individual.

More often than not, it takes pushback for change to happen.

As it happens, I had to call TTC today to address a Presto issue. Took me twenty minutes of cycling back and forth between TTC’s automated phone system and Presto’s before I finally got a live and receptive voice at Presto, who very helpfully transferred me to the TTC customer serice, who then transferred me to the right desk.

That's been exactly my experience twice now, save the last time, when I finally got through to the right number (Presto gives out the wrong number, or if they transfer you directly, the number is never answered) they'd just closed for the day. Unlike Presto, TTC customer service is very limited hours.

The irony? I'd phoned TTC in the first place only to be told it was a Presto competence. I've long ago learned to not use my cell-phone for these calls, as I have a pay per minute plan. I do it through Google phone. But then, when TTC sees an Escondido area code (where Google have their server connected) their automated answering system blocks the call!

Ffff It! If they want to play games like that, I'll play a better one. It's not hard to figure out why there's so much rampant fare cheating. The TTC and GO (not so much) *engender it*! They piss off honest people so much, and shaft them when they look for honest recourse, that they give up, and get what's *fair* for their fare in other ways.
 
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They are making phones that can call and make restaurant reservations for you.

Since your phone knows where you are at all times, it should soon be smart enough to phone, wait on hold, and tell the operator why you should get your $3 back :-D
 
They are making phones that can call and make restaurant reservations for you.

Since your phone knows where you are at all times, it should soon be smart enough to phone, wait on hold, and tell the operator why you should get your $3 back :-D
If only Presto cards had GPS, then all of this could potentially be avoided.
 
They are making phones that can call and make restaurant reservations for you.

Since your phone knows where you are at all times, it should soon be smart enough to phone, wait on hold, and tell the operator why you should get your $3 back :-D
Except I pay by the minute as it is. What possible help would that be for me or the many others that don't have and don't want a "smart phone". If they're so freakin' smart, then they should have straightened things out already.

Next thing you know, they'll want to connect your fridge to the internet....oh....how did we ever exist without these devices before? God help us all...
 
I wonder if the TTC regrets not keeping the Parliament Streetcar. At the time Castle Frank opened the only thing the TTC would have had to do was install tracks into the bus loop since the trakage on Parliament and Bloor already existed. Just having the trackage to Castle Frank alone would have been an incredible addition and great for diversions.
Many cities regret having gotten rid of ALL their streetcar track. Toronto is blessed.
 
Was at Dundas W Station with 3 fare enforcers and 2 TTC special officers checking 504 riders.

A rider didn't have proof of payment because the fare machine wasn't working. He not only told this to the enforcers, but took them onto the car to show them why he couldn't get a transfer for his token. They saw the machine not working and told the rider to drop the token off at the fare booth. He came back and said some choice words regarding the machine since this wasn't the first time dealing non working machines.

Talking to one of the enforcer about what I have seen for these machines, he stated its a big issue for them and try to cut down on fare evasion.

Happen to be on a few others after this event and sure enough, no working ones or only one that did work. A real joke for these machines.

Report into February TTC streetcar incident and CCTV video now available

July 4, 2018

The TTC today released the findings of an investigation into an incident between a customer and three TTC Transit Fare Inspectors on St. Clair Ave. in February.

The Feb. 18 incident began on a westbound 512 St Clair streetcar when the three inspectors were returning to their home office at TTC's Hillcrest Yard on Bathurst St. at the end of a shift.

The customer had boarded the streetcar at St. Clair West Station, standing in front of the doors and facing into the streetcar directly across from one of the inspectors. The other two Transit Fare Inspectors were in another section of the streetcar, joining the first inspector by the time they got to Bathurst St. The inspector across from the customer alleged that the customer stared at him, which prompted him to ask twice if the customer needed assistance and further indicating he was not checking for proof of payment. The customer remained silent, according to the inspector and an independent witness.

When the streetcar stopped at St. Clair Ave. and Bathurst St., the customer exited followed by a group of passengers. The three inspectors exited at the same door. The customer re-boarded the streetcar and resumed his previous position in front of the doors this time facing out toward the inspectors, who were standing together on the streetcar platform. As the doors were closing, the customer pushed the button on the door to re-open it. He exited the vehicle heading directly toward the inspectors, entering the personal space of one of the inspectors. The inspector pushed the customer and the customer fell backwards into the streetcar. The video shows the customer standing up and moving toward the inspector, appearing to attempt to punch the inspector, who was able to deflect it. The customer returned to the streetcar and ran at the inspectors again. The customer was then arrested and detained until Toronto Police arrived.

Following the incident, the TTC launched an internal investigation conducted by the TTC's Investigative Services and the Diversity and Human Rights departments. At issue was determining if the Transit Fare Inspectors violated the TTC Transit Enforcement Unit Code of Conduct, and specifically whether they engaged in discreditable conduct, unlawful or unnecessary exercise of authority, and engaged in racial profiling, discrimination and/or harassment.

The initial review was requested by the TTC's Head of Transit Enforcement. In response to additional questions raised by members of the public, the TTC board and City Council, the scope of the review was expanded to include concerns around potential racial profiling.

In conducting its investigation, TTC investigators reviewed video of the incident - both from multiple cameras on the vehicle and from witness video posted on social media. TTC investigators also considered information obtained through interviews with the three inspectors, and other civilian and employee witnesses, and a statement from the customer. Another witness who posted images of the incident to social media and made statements to media outlets did not respond to requests to be interviewed for the investigation.

In the report to be presented to the TTC board at its July 10 meeting, the investigation concludes there's insufficient evidence to support a finding of discreditable conduct against two of the three Transit Fare Inspectors.

The investigation also found there was insufficient evidence to suggest the Transit Fare Inspectors engaged in "unlawful or unnecessary exercise of authority," or that they engaged in "conduct amounting to discrimination and/or harassment."

It did find, however, that in smiling at the customer after the inspectors exited the streetcar at Bathurst St., the first fare inspector did engage in "unprofessional and discreditable conduct." That Fare Inspector has since resigned from the TTC for unrelated reasons.

The report makes five recommendations related to the TTC's Fare Inspection program:

1. Finalize and implement the Policies and Procedures Manual for Transit Fare Inspectors, setting out clearly the role and responsibilities of the Transit Fare Inspectors by July 31, 2018;

2. Provide clear direction on the role of Transit Fare Inspectors as it relates specifically to use of force;

3. Review the uniform of the Transit Fare Inspector position to ensure it is consistent with the direction of the Transit Fare Inspector role and ensures a clear distinction between Transit Fare Inspectors and Transit Enforcement Officers; and

4. Undertake community outreach and public education campaigns focused on the role and responsibilities of Transit Fare Inspectors and Transit Enforcement Officers;

5. Advance regular diversity, inclusion and human rights training as part of the Transit Fare Inspectors' bi-annual refresher program.

Video from inside the streetcar is available at https://eur03.safelinks.protection....67mpO4YbJhmbBhI0skw8RhgDJjHnF0GUg=&reserved=0 and https://eur03.safelinks.protection....Dqxp5y7SY3tqnyQn4ASFrP23bqHosno60=&reserved=0

The full report can be found at https://eur03.safelinks.protection....pp8HmhBzdWSzP2UO/JNbgg0XchEVhAWh0=&reserved=0
 
I learned the hard way that this applies on th 504 diversion runs as well. Seems some (all?) of the 503 cars known as 504B these days are 504 in Presto and tapping from a 504 short turning at distillery and then onto a 504B (aka 503) heading up to Bingham results in a double charge.
I guess it's safer to just never tap at all. :)
 

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