News   Nov 15, 2024
 2.4K     7 
News   Nov 15, 2024
 2K     1 
News   Nov 15, 2024
 2.4K     0 

TTC: Other Items (catch all)

Except that in reality, the numbers are actually worse than what I initially thought. It's $20 billion over 11 years, so less than $2 Billion/Year spread across Canada. So the TTC would likely see $400-$500 million/year even if the funding is based on ridership.

Is the money dedicated specifically towards new infrastructure?

I wouldn't mind if the TTC put some of this first round of money towards maintenance and upgrading existing systems to ensure that a repeat of last summer (broken AC & delays) doesn't repeat itself.
 
Something I found very interesting from living in Helsinki was how often inclined elevators were used in their subway, especially in deep stations. Almost always they parallel the escalator bank(s) heading up from the platform. I wonder if this would be feasible in Toronto.


 
Something I found very interesting from living in Helsinki was how often inclined elevators were used in their subway, especially in deep stations. Almost always they parallel the escalator bank(s) heading up from the platform. I wonder if this would be feasible in Toronto.


London has few of them in some of the older tube stations where conventional elevators weren't possible.
 
Taking a stair and turning it into an elevator isn't going to happen on the TTC. Stairs are for emergencies for the mass which is much more important than accessibility for a few. Toronto doesn't have much historical buildings that prohibits vertical extraction so I don't see why we even need them.
 
Rather than building a separate shaft for an elevator, they could combine with the diagonal shaft of the stairs and escalator.

Maybe next will be a turbolift concept, where the same cab will move horizontally and/or vertically and independently between eastbound or westbound and the bus or exit levels. "Eastbound please."

0864cad2241d42c3318c830c47487ebb_turboelevator_1316_866.jpg
 
Last edited:
The details are here:

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/03/th...ter-to-stand-on-the-escalator-well-sometimes/

Except that in the Toronto Yonge/Bloor or St. George/Bloor case - if you don't allow people to walk on the escalators, they are just going to walk up the stairs even more so that they already do and it will basically eat up the chunk of the stairs for people heading down. We have all seen it happen.

The linked paper in the quoted site also hints at additional complexities (escalator banks, etc) that may not be something to be applied across the board in other situations.

AoD
 
Last edited:
The details are here:

http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/03/th...ter-to-stand-on-the-escalator-well-sometimes/

Except that in the Toronto Yonge/Bloor or St. George/Bloor case - if you don't allow people to walk on the escalators, they are just going to walk up the stairs even more so that they already do and it will basically eat up the chunk of the stairs for people heading down. We have all seen it happen.

The linked paper in the quoted site also hints at additional complexities (escalator banks, etc) that may not be something to be applied across the board in other situations.

AoD
That's wild! I followed that debate in the UK press, and there's a proviso to the claim that "standing moves just as many people per time as standing (left) walking (right) (reversed because they're backwards, lol)" and it's for the *deep tube* lines, not surface ones like we have in Toronto.

There's other factors that come into play when the escalators are a long distance for the average out-of-shape Pleb. It is still contentious. I'll see if I can dig out some of the research.

For those who think it speeds up their travel to walk instead of stand, you are most likely correct in most cases in Toronto! Look at the physics this way: Do you arrive at your destination faster moving in the fast lane of a highway overtaking others? All things considered, yes, safety being a consideration.

And how about those who stand? In almost every case, you get to the top before they do! Dammit, even passing slower people on fixed stairs proves the physics.

Did anyone hear the joke about the Emperor's Clothes?

Edit to Add: This isn't the actual research, but quotes a researcher behind the claim...and *note the proviso*! The actual research paper is linked in the article.

The Citizen's Guide to the Future
Jan. 22 2016 11:03 AM
Don’t Walk on Escalators. It’s Faster if Everyone Stands.
By Lily Hay Newman
[...]
Usually people naturally create two paths on escalators. One (to the right in the United States) is for standing, and the other is for walking. The Guardian reports, though, that during a three-week trial at the Holborn Tube Station (a transfer station used by 56 million people per year) in November, staffers from the municipal group Transport for London attempted to disrupt this norm. Employees used megaphones to ask people not to walk on the escalators. They sent unmoving staffers up and down the escalators to block walking traffic. They even asked couples to stand next to each other and hold hands to discourage the usual walking lane.

Research from the University of Greenwich in 2011 indicated that on average about 75 percent of people will stand on escalators while the other 25 percent walk. Right away you can see how reserving half of an escalator's real estate for only one-quarter of the people who use it might not make sense. And people tend to create more following distance on the walking side of the escalator versus the standing side. Transport for London's simulations preliminarily showed that using a whole Holborn Station escalator for standing would allow 31.25 more people per minute to board the escalator (112.5 people on the escalator per minute versus 81.25 people per minute with a walking lane).

In fact the three-week experiment in2015 had even better results than the Transport for London researchers predicted based on the Greenwich research. For example, one escalator that normally transported 12,745 people between 8:30 and 9:30 a.m. on a typical week was able to move 16,220 because of standing rules. But the Guardian reports that commuters pushed back, calling the trial “stupid” or yelling, “This isn’t Russia!”

The approach asks people to do something they are often bad at: delaying instant gratification in the interest of a greater good. A lot of the benefit of universal standing has to do with reducing the bottleneck at the entrance to escalators. The more people can get on per minute, the less time they have to wait to get on in the first place. For walkers this may not intuitively feel like a worthwhile trade-off, though. And creating specific sides for walking/standing is a very ingrained behavior.

Michael Kinsey, a fire engineer who co-authored the 2011 study and has been working on escalator safety at the British consulting firm Arup, told Slate that attempting to change rider behavior for short escalators may not be worth it. “However, for longer escalators, more people typically prefer to ride due to increase in energy expenditure/physical ability of walking,” he said, “Which means less people are using the walker lane. ... So for longer escalators, if the main aim is to increase escalator capacity, then asking people to ride on both sides will achieve this.” [...]
http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_t...alking_according_to_transport_for_london.html

There's much more on-line, but I'll leave it at that for now. Brace yourselves for a slew of uninformed comments on the matter. There's a further rough analogy to be had in the highway passing lane model by slow drivers blocking the lane. It doesn't mean that people using the passing lane can't stay there for distance, just that they must continue to travel at passing speed so as not to obstruct others.

Here's a wild projection: The folks in Sweden aren't accepting the London Underground claims.
 
Last edited:
Wow. Blocking the left side (even by just moving slower than a fit Nordic hiker with walking sticks) is life threatening on many transit systems.

- Paul
 
Wow. Blocking the left side (even by just moving slower than a fit Nordic hiker with walking sticks) is life threatening on many transit systems.

- Paul
Far from being scientific, but a pretty broad representation of the public on-line readership, here's the latest from the TorStar poll:

Do you think people should stop walking on escalators?
Yes, it's obviously a safety risk. 22.79% (911 votes)

No, that's ridiculous. I have a bus to catch. 77.21% (3,086 votes)

Total Votes: 3,997

https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/2017/03/29/the-ttc-wants-you-to-take-a-stand-on-its-escalators.html

I'm suitably impressed!
 
There's much more on-line, but I'll leave it at that for now. Brace yourselves for a slew of uninformed comments on the matter. There's a further rough analogy to be had in the highway passing lane model by slow drivers blocking the lane. It doesn't mean that people using the passing lane can't stay there for distance, just that they must continue to travel at passing speed so as not to obstruct others.

That's not true at all. It has more to do with the fact that people walking take up more space.

Use the same example of the highway. Highways can move more cars if speeds are decreased, since there's a smaller gap (i.e. less wasted space) between cars. The downside is that people can't move as fast, which is a problem when you're driving 45 minutes instead of 30 on a highway, but doesn't really matter if you spend 60 seconds rather than 30 seconds on an escalator.
 
The downside is that people can't move as fast, which is a problem when you're driving 45 minutes instead of 30 on a highway, but doesn't really matter if you spend 60 seconds rather than 30 seconds on an escalator.

60 seconds instead of 30 seconds on an escalator matters if you miss your bus/streetcar and have to wait 5 minutes for the next one, which later short turns, and there's a 20 minute gap to the next one, which is full because of the gap never mind the crowd of people from the short turned one...or if your bus comes every 30+ minutes in the first place.
 
Now we will all want this:

This decade, the mantra in real estate has been people want to live near mass transit. Now it seems people want to live with the transit.
At least that's the case in Chongqing, China, where an apartment building has been built with a train running through it.
170321115904-03-china-monorail-apartment-restricted-exlarge-169.jpg



Not only does the light rail passenger train pass through the 19-story residential building, it also has a transit stop there,. So apartment residents can just go to the sixth through eighth floors to hitch a ride.

Don't tell Scarborough! (From http://edition.cnn.com/2017/03/21/asia/china-train-building-trnd/ )
 
That's not true at all. It has more to do with the fact that people walking take up more space.

Use the same example of the highway. Highways can move more cars if speeds are decreased, since there's a smaller gap (i.e. less wasted space) between cars. The downside is that people can't move as fast, which is a problem when you're driving 45 minutes instead of 30 on a highway, but doesn't really matter if you spend 60 seconds rather than 30 seconds on an escalator.
You confuse throughput with speed. And besides, the original study and follow-ons all caveated their observations, not least that fitness and social factors, let alone the loading flow and length of escalators were all factors in determining conclusions.
 

Back
Top