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Danforth Line 2 Scarborough Subway Extension

I still don't get it- let me get this straight:

- The routing of the Scarborough subway was shifted to avoid competition with Smarttrack
- The line is reduced to a one-stop subway- essentially voiding the major reason why the eastern route was chosen

Why wouldn't it be possible to consider converting the SRT into a full-fledged subway, considering that Kennedy needs to be rebuilt anyways?

It would save considerable amounts of money compared to tunneling through suburbia- and the final destination still remains the same.
 
jje1000 said:
I still don't get it- let me get this straight:

- The routing of the Scarborough subway was shifted to avoid competition with Smarttrack
- The line is reduced to a one-stop subway- essentially voiding the major reason why the eastern route was chosen

Why wouldn't it be possible to consider converting the SRT into a full-fledged subway, considering that Kennedy needs to be rebuilt anyways?

It would save considerable amounts of money compared to tunneling through suburbia- and the final destination still remains the same.
Click to expand...


Couldn't agree more.
 
BurlOak said:
Being in the Scarborough RT thread, this is not intended to replace the conventionally viewed DRL, but to solve the Scarborough transit problem.

Both the Transit City LRT and the B-D Subway extension actually do the opposite of relieving the Yonge Line. They just carry additional passengers to the Y-B station, leading to longer dwell times on the Yonge line (and B-D line too) as passengers attempt to transfer. This line is primarily intended to serve Scarborough (from Malvern to the NY border) and then shuttle riders to the downtown with minimal stops along the way. This actually does relieve Yonge to some degree by having fewer passengers transfer at Y-B. With an interchange with ECLRT, it would also siphon off some of the potential transfers at Y-E. Cost wise, this is also comparable to the Scarborough Subway Extension.

The DRL that is currently proposed will actually do very little in the way of relief if only the first phase to Danforth is built. It is also very expensive. At least north of Danforth savings can be realized by using cut-and-cover (to O'Conner) and/or elevated portions (along Don Mills). This would go up Don Mills (to Seneca) and relieve the Yonge line by actually catching bus riders on Lawrence, Sheppard, Finch, and Steeles before they reach Yonge.

This line actually accomplishes the best of both worlds.
  • It has several stops in Scarborough all the way to Malvern (similar to the LRT, but even more to the west)
  • It provides a continuous route to the downtown (similar to the subway)
  • It is much less expensive than the subway
Click to expand...

Considering that even the LRT now costs over $3B despite re-using a lot of existing infrastructure, it's unclear how your 25 km elevated subway would somehow be "much less expensive than the [Scarborough] subway". Aside from that, the original relief line was supposed to provide relief by running parallel to the Yonge line and intercepting bus riders before they reach Yonge, and I agree that it won't be truly effective until it goes beyond Danforth. But I think that diverting the RL into Scarborough would detract from it's main function, especially if it requires a gondola interchange between the BD subway and your relief line alignment in the Don Valley.

@cplchanb, I apologize for my needlessly rude comments previously.
 
jje1000 said:
I still don't get it- let me get this straight:

- The routing of the Scarborough subway was shifted to avoid competition with Smarttrack
- The line is reduced to a one-stop subway- essentially voiding the major reason why the eastern route was chosen

Why wouldn't it be possible to consider converting the SRT into a full-fledged subway, considering that Kennedy needs to be rebuilt anyways?

It would save considerable amounts of money compared to tunneling through suburbia- and the final destination still remains the same.
Click to expand...

Anything is possible to consider, but it's still unknown whether it would actually be feasible or substantially cheaper. For one, the Kennedy subway platform would need to be rebuilt in a different location which would also involve short-turning subway service at Warden for a period of time. You are correct that Kennedy needs to be rebuilt anyway, but relocating the entire station was not part of the plan. At this point, doing so could complicate the Crosstown project whose design has already been mostly finalized, potentially delay it's completion by several years.


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salsa said:
Considering that even the LRT now costs over $3B despite re-using a lot of existing infrastructure, it's unclear how your 25 km elevated subway would somehow be "much less expensive than the [Scarborough] subway". Aside from that, the original relief line was supposed to provide relief by running parallel to the Yonge line and intercepting bus riders before they reach Yonge, and I agree that it won't be truly effective until it goes beyond Danforth. But I think that diverting the RL into Scarborough would detract from it's main function, especially if it requires a gondola interchange between the BD subway and your relief line alignment in the Don Valley.

@cplchanb, I apologize for my needlessly rude comments previously.
Click to expand...
You do not seem to understand that there are 2 lines here.

  1. The Scarborough Line, whose main purpose is to serve as much of Scarborough as possible with a continuous transit line to Downtown. A secondary benefit is this line is that it provides some relief to Yonge, rather than contributing to the Yonge overload. The reason for going through the valley is to reduce costs so that the line can actually be built. Vancouver has taught us that elevated transit costs about $100M/km using Canadian labour practices, codes and costs.
  2. The DRL, whose main purpose is to relieve the Yonge line by intercepting bus passengers before they get to Yonge. A secondary benefit of this line is that it serves other parts of downtown.
If its true that Phase 1 of the DRL from St. Andrew to Danforth/Pape will cost $6.8B and not be completed until 2031, then then using the Scarborough transit money to NOT add to the mess at Y-B is a wise investment.

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At this point, that polarizing subways subways subways mayoral candidate that Coffee keeps going on about as some returning specter for 2018, that might be John Tory himself.

If Tory wants to resurrect the Sheppard Subway, then I can only hope his opposition runs on an LRT platform and wins.
 
salsa said:
Anything is possible to consider, but it's still unknown whether it would actually be feasible or substantially cheaper. For one, the Kennedy subway platform would need to be rebuilt in a different location which would also involve short-turning subway service at Warden for a period of time. You are correct that Kennedy needs to be rebuilt anyway, but relocating the entire station was not part of the plan. At this point, doing so could complicate the Crosstown project whose design has already been mostly finalized, potentially delay it's completion by several years.
Click to expand...

It's still an improvement over a one stop subway - and so what if the eastern terminus of ECLRT gets delayed - you can always arbitrarily end the line further west on a temporarily basis.

AoD
 
Scarborough subway gets high-profile boost

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/07/11/scarborough-subway-gets-high-profile-boost

In an open letter to Mayor John Tory and city council, leaders from two Scarborough hospitals, the University of Toronto Scarborough campus, Centennial College, and the Scarborough Business Association want politicians to avoid further delays on delivering transit to the city’s east end.

“Connecting Scarborough Town Centre to the existing subway as an express line to help people move to and from the downtown core makes sense and enhances the multi-regional transit hub at the Scarborough Town Centre,” the leaders wrote in Monday’s letter. “At the same time, it makes sense to extend the Eglinton LRT much further east.”
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I'm guessing Crosstown East is the catalyst. Reverting to the old plan would most likely jeopardize Crosstown because it would be back to the drawing boards
 
Cho pledges Scarborough subway during campaign office opening

http://www.torontosun.com/2016/07/11/cho-pledges-scarborough-subway-during-campaign-office-opening

“I will advocate for a subway extension beyond the Scarborough Town Centre to Sheppard Ave. E. and McCowan Rd.,” he told dozens of supporters. “I propose a subway extension beyond the Scarborough Town Centre that actually reaches into our riding, right here.”
Click to expand...

Never seen a project so politically charged...So now both the PC and Liberals wants the subway to happen. Seems like tomorrow's vote will be a waste of time
 
Please...........I beg the politicians to put their partisanship and rhetoric aside and just let whatevers been planned happen.
The more they flip flop the more its going to EXPONENTIALLY cost both in time and money!
 
Considering that no one believes they can afford an extension of the subway beyond STC, I would say Cho's statement is a throwaway that his own party doesn't take seriously. Just another case of saying what he needs to say to get elected. Once he's in - he can bleat occasionally but otherwise will have to toe the party line.

- Paul
 
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