TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[car4041]

Since the new streetcars sre going to be much longer than the current rolling stock, does anyone know if the TTC will re-evaluate the stop spacing or alter the stop island platforms to expand them on routes that start using the new LRVs? I would imagine that this would need to be done but have not heard of anything that the TTC is doing to prepare.

I believe most of the boarding islands are long enough, although the new cars won't be able to stop as far back from the intersection as the current shorter cars can when there's traffic ahead.

At the open house for the mockup that was held at Hillcrest, I was told that they will be adjusting the height of the platforms on Spadina (and presumably elsewhere) in order to match the height required by the new cars. Apparently there is a lot of variation in the dimensions of the current islands -- the tolerances are too loose.

For stops without platforms or boarding islands, they will be adding curb cuts to the sidewalk to align with the doors with the ramp, providing a direct path from the sidewalk to the ramp. Roncesvalles-style bumpouts are the ideal goal, but obviously there are many locations where they won't be appropriate.

I have seen suggestions on this board that the Sunday stops be eliminated, but I don't know if the TTC is planning to do that. The introduction of the new cars might be a good excuse. Aside from the Sunday stops, which are often just a block from the regular stops, there's no other reason why the new cars would force a re-evaluation of the current stop spacing (although there are of course independent reasons for such a re-evaluation). The new cars are only 16 feet longer than an ALRV.

 

[rbt]

C'mon. Give the TTC some credit. They aren't complete idiots (I hope).

TTC riders do not want stops removed. TTC gets very vocal pushback each time they propose such a thing as they have on virtually every route which has undergone major construction.

In a "the customer is always right" environment, you don't remove stops.

 

[drum118]

TTC riders do not want stops removed. TTC gets very vocal pushback each time they propose such a thing as they have on virtually every route which has undergone major construction.

In a "the customer is always right" environment, you don't remove stops.

The time has come to removed both Sunday Stop and increase the spacing between stops regardless if its streetcars or buses. We are not in the late 1800' or early 1900's.

Stops at York and Simcoe need to be removed for both King and Queen right off the bat. Anything under 300-400m is too close unless major intersection. Having to stop at every stop to pickup a rider or 2 is too slow.

One thing everyone one must keep in mind, what is the total walking distance at both ends of the riders trip. Does the extra walking distance and time justify the extra spacing distance for 300-400m, but more so if it even further apart? The extra time saving traveling time can be lost for riders spending more time walking to/from were they start and stop compare today spacing. Again, it will only benefit the long haul riders that will be out number by the short distance riders.

I do know TTC wants to remove stops, but are waiting for the arrival of the new cars to show it to the public to justify the removal or relations of stop to the public. At the end of the day, TTC is in a dead man zone for removing stops.

Final note, more riders at one stop take longer to load or off load at greater spacing than closer stops. You win in some places and loose in another area.

Bump out ramps for accessibility is going to be a major issue as well costly.

 

[W. K. Lis]

TTC riders do not want stops removed. TTC gets very vocal pushback each time they propose such a thing as they have on virtually every route which has undergone major construction.

In a "the customer is always right" environment, you don't remove stops.

A good example would be the Yonge Street and Victoria Street stops on the 501 Queen. The LFLRV are so long that the vehicle would take the whole block. And since all the doors would be used for boarding and egressing, why do we need stops so close together?

 

[car4041]

A good example would be the Yonge Street and Victoria Street stops on the 501 Queen. The LFLRV are so long that the vehicle would take the whole block. And since all the doors would be used for boarding and egressing, why do we need stops so close together?

I agree that the Victoria stop could go, but it's not true that the new cars will take up the whole block. The block is over 80m long and the new cars are 28m long. There's really a tendency to overstate their length. They're just 16 feet longer than an ARLV.

 

[ShonTron]

I believe most of the boarding islands are long enough, although the new cars won't be able to stop as far back from the intersection as the current shorter cars can when there's traffic ahead.

That's true from what I understand. The Spadina, Queensway and St. Clair boarding islands are ready. The ones at Bathurst and King were recently rebuilt and will accomodate them as well. There are a few on Queen and Lake Shore that I am not sure about. College was to be the last converted route partly because it has more islands than any other carline.

I have seen suggestions on this board that the Sunday stops be eliminated, but I don't know if the TTC is planning to do that. The introduction of the new cars might be a good excuse. Aside from the Sunday stops, which are often just a block from the regular stops, there's no other reason why the new cars would force a re-evaluation of the current stop spacing (although there are of course independent reasons for such a re-evaluation). The new cars are only 16 feet longer than an ALRV.

I asked about this at the open house. I think the Sunday stops are toast. They were removed from Roncesvalles, after all. I was told that there will be some other stops looked at.

After all, the stop at Queen and Victoria will only be a few metres from the back doors of the new car stopped for Yonge, which with all-door loading, doesn't matter so much.

 

[W. K. Lis]

I believe most of the boarding islands are long enough, although the new cars won't be able to stop as far back from the intersection as the current shorter cars can when there's traffic ahead.

That's true from what I understand. The Spadina, Queensway and St. Clair boarding islands are ready. The ones at Bathurst and King were recently rebuilt and will accomodate them as well. There are a few on Queen and Lake Shore that I am not sure about. College was to be the last converted route partly because it has more islands than any other carline.



I asked about this at the open house. I think the Sunday stops are toast. They were removed from Roncesvalles, after all. I was told that there will be some other stops looked at.

After all, the stop at Queen and Victoria will only be a few metres from the back doors of the new car stopped for Yonge, which with all-door loading, doesn't matter so much.

It is my understanding the some of the islands on Spadina are not at the correct height for use by the LFLRV. Some platforms are to be rebuilt, along with intersection rebuilds.

 

[Molybdenum]

It is my understanding the some of the islands on Spadina are not at the correct height for use by the LFLRV. Some platforms are to be rebuilt, along with intersection rebuilds.

The TTC has a tender out for this right now, which also includes roughing in ticket vending machine infrastructure: http://www.ttc.ca/TTC_Business/Materials_and_procurement/Ads_PP/Tender/T11PT12745.jsp

"The Commission requires the services of a Contractor to complete the Spadina streetcar line network accessibility and proof of payment infrastructure which includes but is not limited to modifying platform elevations to ensure they fall within the acceptable prescribed tolerances, modifying shelters for reinforcement, extending railing safety, way finding treatments for the visually impaired and providing electrical conduits for ticket vending machines."

 

[Dan416]

The TTC has a tender out for this right now, which also includes roughing in ticket vending machine infrastructure: http://www.ttc.ca/TTC_Business/Materials_and_procurement/Ads_PP/Tender/T11PT12745.jsp

"The Commission requires the services of a Contractor to complete the Spadina streetcar line network accessibility and proof of payment infrastructure which includes but is not limited to modifying platform elevations to ensure they fall within the acceptable prescribed tolerances, modifying shelters for reinforcement, extending railing safety, way finding treatments for the visually impaired and providing electrical conduits for ticket vending machines."

That could really improve the Spadina streetcar.

 

[SlickFranky]

Low-floor, all door boarding alone is going to be a huge help on Spadina. The elderly-passengers-with-giant-shopping-carts issue on that line is out of control.

 

[car4041]

Low-floor, all door boarding alone is going to be a huge help on Spadina. The elderly-passengers-with-giant-shopping-carts issue on that line is out of control.

Indeed -- given the extreme frequency of the Spadina car, a couple of grannies with carts can be enough to create a bunch of three streetcars! And it does seem to spend more time boarding than actually moving. Can't wait for the new cars.

 

[TheKingEast]

As someone who takes the Queen Street Car as well as the Spadina streetcar every day. Some stops need to be removed. Like the stop at Victoria street which is literally 10 steps away from Yonge. Then the stop at York needs to be removed as it's a few steps away from the University stop....same for the Simcoe stop.

Then on Spadina. The stop at Richmond is a few steps down from Queen.

 

[Hipster Duck]

From the Star:

City of Toronto surplus surges to $292 million, most of which will help buy new streetcars

The City of Toronto’s surplus from last year is a whopping $292 million, almost $140 million higher than previously forecast, a city source says.

Most of the windfall, minus about $8 million earmarked for two funds, will be directed toward the outstanding bill to replace the TTC’s old streetcar fleet, the source confirmed Friday after word started to leak out ahead of a Monday announcement.

Councillor Peter Milczyn, a budget committee member, said he knew the surplus would be “substantially higher†than the $154 million estimated by staff when council approved the 2012 budget in January, but he hadn’t heard an exact figure.

“Council directed that the surplus be directed to capital purchases and specifically the new TTC streetcar order,†Milczyn said.

“That order (made under the previous administration) was about $750 million with no way to pay for it. I think we’ve identified about $200 million, so this (surplus) would leave us with $500 million to $600 million to find.â€

Much of the surplus is thanks to Toronto’s hot real estate market and the land transfer tax that Mayor Rob Ford has vowed to scrap.

During January’s bruising budget debate, council defied Mayor Rob Ford and his allies by using $19 million in surplus funds to prevent a host of cuts.

Despite the vote to aim the rest at the streetcar order, councillors now trying to prevent other cuts, including closure of city-run zoos at High Park and Centreville, are likely to look at the latest windfall with interest.

 

[dowlingm]

I'm okay with the notion that this year's surplus be allocated to the streetcars BUT if what Ford really means is "I want to have a slush fund I can cause a crisis to break open" or "we can ONLY have streetcars if we have a surplus EVERY year" then sod that.

Now that I have a kid the notion of how un-accessible much of the system is or can be is front and centre for me. Most "accessible" stations have only one elevator and if this is out of service the designated "alternative" can be to get a bus to seven stations away (Broadview/Main; "accessible" buses are problematic if full because if the front is congested exit through the back door is decidedly not accessible) so a vehicle where every door is accessible/low step will transform downtown transit accessibility beyond even what conversion to low-ish floor buses would have done.

 

[nfitz]

I'm okay with the notion that this year's surplus be allocated to the streetcars BUT if what Ford really means is "I want to have a slush fund I can cause a crisis to break open" or "we can ONLY have streetcars if we have a surplus EVERY year" then sod that.

Now that I have a kid the notion of how un-accessible much of the system is or can be is front and centre for me. Most "accessible" stations have only one elevator and if this is out of service the designated "alternative" can be to get a bus to seven stations away (Broadview/Main; "accessible" buses are problematic if full because if the front is congested exit through the back door is decidedly not accessible) so a vehicle where every door is accessible/low step will transform downtown transit accessibility beyond even what conversion to low-ish floor buses would have done.

Don't sweat it ... let him say whatever he wants. What he is doing is simply lowering Toronto's debt below the (very restricted) debt ceiling. This frees up council to spend the money on other projects, such as the DRL, Don Mills LRT, perhaps a nice ice arena in the Portlands ...