TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[unimaginative2]

First of all, Thunder Bay is also a Liberal/NDP swing area. Secondly, all of these streetcars are serving downtown. The new vehicles for the Transit City lines are a separate project coming later. Thirdly, the Tories have no serious prospect of winning any seats in the 416 or even in the inner 905, so the handful of people who might make up their voting decision on the basis of this project won't have any effect on Tory electoral prospects. On the other hand, the votes they might pick up from saying Fuck Off Toronto will come in close and very winnable ridings in places like Eastern Ontario, Western Canada, and Southwestern Ontario.

 

[kEiThZ]

Yes. They frequently play very strong armed politics with senior governments. In fact, Miller is still being pretty tame by comparison. Livingstone used to stick his nose into all kinds of things that weren't his business as mayor and played very strong political games.

Daley has done far more interesting things.

They do a lot of things....and some of them downright dangerous (bulldozing active runways for example). But they would never submit only one application that's barely compliant for federal funding when other cities are submitting dozens.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Yep, don't you know that stimulus is supposed to be spend in another district years after the recession is over?

The rules were there for a reason. It's ridiculous that Miller only submitted one barely or non-compliant application. That's playing politics plain and simple. I can see it now, the feds wills simply offer to pay one third of only those streetcars that will be delivered before the end of fiscal year 2011. What would Miller do then?

He could have put in various roadworks, upgraded public housing or community rec centres, or even put in for some of the work pertaining to Transit City or for current streetcar trackwork....all of that would have freed up money that could have gone towards buying streetcars. Instead he chose to make a political statement by trying to paint the feds into a car. And they wonder why nobody likes Toronto....

Seriously, could anyone see the Mayor of New York or the Mayor of London behaving like that?

Mayor Miller does not like to do much by the books.
This is the same headcase that 3 years ago worked out a deal to purchase more than $700-million worth of subway cars from Bombardier without competition from other firms.
This decision to sole-source the purchase of 234 new subway cars to Bombardier’s Thunder Bay plant with no competition (as mentioned many times) will most likely cost Toronto taxpayers in the future an extra $100-million.

 

[unimaginative2]

As has been said many times, those new subway cars are cost shared with the higher levels of government, who will be picking up most of the tab. A taxpayer in Thunder Bay will pay just as much of the federal and provincial portion as a taxpayer in Toronto.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Blackpool tram funding confirmed

Blackpool, England had an end of June, 2009 target (same as Toronto's) date for signing their contract for trams from Bombardier. They did so today, June 10th, ahead of time. Still waiting on Toronto and Bombardier signing.

From Railway Gazette article:

Blackpool tram funding confirmed

10 Jun 2009

UK: Transport Minister Sadiq Khan confirmed the award of £68·3m of government and £33·4m of local council funding for an upgrade of the Blackpool tramway on June 10.

Work to provide a modern commuter service on the traditional tramway will include replacing 8 km of track, accessibility improvements, tram priority at junctions, a new depot and the purchase of 16 Bombardier Flexity 2 trams.

'Trams have been running in Blackpool for over 100 years - I hope this funding will mean the historic, world-famous tramway can continue to run well into the future' said Khan.

The Flexity 2 is the latest Bombardier model.

 

[kettal]

Thirdly, the Tories have no serious prospect of winning any seats in the 416 or even in the inner 905, so the handful of people who might make up their voting decision on the basis of this project won't have any effect on Tory electoral prospects. On the other hand, the votes they might pick up from saying Fuck Off Toronto will come in close and very winnable ridings in places like Eastern Ontario, Western Canada, and Southwestern Ontario.

Yet they invested in Sheppard LRT. Ontario is the new Quebec for the CPC.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Blackpool is purchasing the Bombardier Flexity 2 trams, good choice. Hopefully Toronto changes their order and go with the Flex-2.

 

[nfitz]

Yet they invested in Sheppard LRT. Ontario is the new Quebec for the CPC.

Gee ... $300-million from the Feds for new transit lines in Toronto this year ... and $9-billion from Ontario.

 

[Ansem]

Baird bungle bodes well for Miller

http://www.thestar.com/gta/columnist/article/648975

by Royson James

Toronto Mayor David Miller knew the answer would be "No." Still, he demanded the feds pay $300 million of the TTC's $1.2 billion streetcar purchase – a project clearly ineligible under rules drafted by the Stephen Harper government as part of its stimulus package for infrastructure spending.

The streetcar project fails to qualify on two counts: The spending occurs over a decade while the feds want it used up in two years, and the jobs are spread all the way to Thunder Bay while the feds want them localized.

Miller knew this. His was a calculated move – one council bought, assuming the mayor had inside knowledge or a tacit nod from senior political sources that the money was forthcoming.

Now, the deadline approaches and pressure builds. The vehicle costs jump after June 27.

The fact that John Baird, the federal minister of transportation and the one responsible for the infrastructure fund, would cuss Toronto in a public place (he didn't know the audience included Star reporter Petti Fong or, apparently, that he was speaking in the media room at a conference in Whistler, B.C.) suggests that signals got crossed.

That aside, Baird's impolitic outburst is just what Miller needed. Now, the gamble is sure to work.

Through skilful reading of the political tea leaves, the aligning of political stars and just plain luck, Miller is poised to win a big one for the city.

It's hard to conceive of a scenario where Toronto will not get the federal dollars needed to fund the purchase of 204 modern streetcars to replace its aging fleet. The frustrated and obscenely candid Baird has unwittingly seen to that. One day after the "Top Tory curses Toronto" headline, the minister elicited a second-day headline, "Baird to Toronto: Sorry".

Apology accepted; now send the cash.

The context for this is most observers believe the federal Conservatives don't much like Toronto and urban regions in general. There was this Toronto Star headline: "PM to cities: Drop Dead."

Several stories, dating back to 2002, quoted Finance Minister Jim Flaherty telling Toronto to "get your financial house in order" before asking Ottawa for cash. In November 2007, Flaherty brushed aside concerns that municipal roads and bridges were underfunded and in a state of near collapse. His government was not "in the pothole business," he said.

But the economic tsunami that has overwhelmed most governments pushed Flaherty into a complete reversal. Now the Harperites insist municipalities use the $4 billion stimulus fund to fill potholes, not build big, multi-year projects.

Toronto wants to buy streetcars – a purchase that would boost jobs in Thunder Bay and ensure a steady flow of streetcars that will be needed for decades – but the feds want the city to concentrate on "shovel-ready projects."

Miller's gamble was well considered. For one, the federal government would have a difficult time shutting Toronto out when the city is entitled to about $300 million. Secondly, the guidelines came out so late that should the streetcar project not meet approval, Toronto could reasonably seek to submit substitute projects, even after the deadline.

The federal minority government could be heading into an election at any time. They do not want to run in Toronto following a big blow-up over money available to every village, but somehow not getting to Toronto because Miller wanted it for streetcars and Harper wanted it for potholes.

Baird's embarrassingly placed expletive only made the reality pointedly obvious.

 

[grey]

The federal minority government could be heading into an election at any time. They do not want to run in Toronto following a big blow-up over money available to every village, but somehow not getting to Toronto because Miller wanted it for streetcars and Harper wanted it for potholes.

Baird's embarrassingly placed expletive only made the reality pointedly obvious.

Yeah... not really.

unimaginative2 framed the reason quite nicely at the top of this page.

 

[Automation Gallery]

Bombardier sells economic merits of streetcar bid
National Post Posted: June 16, 2009

Bombardier is now stepping up to make the economic case for government funds to help Toronto purchase new streetcars.

Late today, a spokesman for Toronto Mayor David Miller released a report commissioned by the company, which has been selected to build the next generation of streetcars for the city at a cost of $1.2 billion.
The Toronto Transit Commission announced Bombardier as the winning bidder nearly two months ago – before it had secured agreements from the province and the federal government to purchase the vehicles.

A June 27 deadline looms to place the order – but so far both Ottawa and Queen’s Park have been skeptical of the contract, suggesting it doesn’t qualify for economic stimulus funds.

Bombardier has pledged to manufacture at least 25% of 204 new low-floor replacement streetcars in Canada. As a result:

- The study claims the project would generate 5,700 direct jobs. Most would be in Ontario, including 4,650 at a Bombardier plant in Thunder Bay, while 700 would be in Quebec.

- The company said the project would also create 14,800 indirect jobs – 10,300 in Ontario, and 4,500 in Quebec and Manitoba. Of the jobs in Ontario, 4,105 would be in Greater Toronto.

- The contract would pay out $1.1 billion in wages, salaries and benefits, $885 million of it in Ontario, $230 million of it in the GTA.

- The report also estimate the project would generate $240 million in revenue to Ontario from sales and income tax and $244 million to Ottawa – which would “offset and capital grant” by either government to the city.

The TTC has said if it can’t order the replacement streetcars from Bombardier by the end of next week, then it won’t be able to order up to 400 new vehicles for brand new light rail routes by the time those lines are built with federal and provincial money.

It can only order streetcars for the new lines as an option on the contract to purchase the vehicles for the old lines.

But upper levels of government have been cool to the idea as a candidate for economic stimulus funds.

Just over a week ago, federal Infrastructure Minister John Baird was caught saying Toronto should “F$%& off” for thinking a manufacturing project would win over thousands of bricks and mortar infrastructure proposed from cities across Canada. (He has since apologized for the profanity).

Ontario Premier Dalton McGuinty has ribbed Toronto’s Mayor about never being satifisfied in his quest for transit dollars, despite the fact the province has already pledged close to $9 billion in the last year.

Ontario Infrastructure Minister George Smitherman also lashed out at Toronto for announcing the streetcar design without having securing money to pay for them.

 

[Chris84]

Star: Green light for new streetcars

Green light for new streetcars

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/652705

Jun 17, 2009 11:10 PM

Tess Kalinowski
Transportation reporter

Premier Dalton McGuinty and Toronto Mayor David Miller are expected to announce in Thunder Bay Friday that the TTC's plan to buy 204 European-style streetcars finally is a go.

Federal officials Wednesday night refused to confirm that Prime Minister Stephen Harper will also attend the event, and it is still unclear whether Ottawa has stepped up with stimulus cash to pay a third of the $1.2 billion cost of the TTC's agreement with Bombardier to build the cars.

That deal was to expire June 27.

Transport Minister John Baird dismissed Toronto's sole request for a share of the economic stimulus pot – money for streetcars – with a well-publicized expletive last week. But he later apologized, saying the "best is yet to come" for transit, and suggested Ottawa would continue to work with the city to make sure Toronto wasn't overlooked.

The streetcars would replace the TTC's decrepit 30-year-old fleet that runs on 11 of the city's busiest transit routes.

Without new cars, the TTC would have to undertake a major rebuild of its current vehicles, something that would cost at least $100 million and take years. Meantime, the cars are failing so fast the TTC anticipates having to use buses on some routes later this year.

Government and Bombardier officials were tight-lipped Wednesday over details of Friday's announcement.

But a city hall source said a report showing the streetcar contract would directly create 5,700 jobs "is very compelling."

Released by the mayor's office Tuesday, the report was prepared for Bombardier by an outside consultant. It says the streetcars that would be built at Bombardier's Thunder Bay plant would directly generate 5,700 jobs, including 5,000 in Ontario.

About 350 of those jobs would be located in the Toronto area, and the contract would create a further 4,100 indirect jobs here. If the federal and provincial governments invested in the streetcars, they would recoup about $500 million in tax revenue, the report says.

It's estimated that Toronto is eligible for about $312 million of the federal government's $4 billion economic stimulus fund.

A spokesperson for Baird said his office received the report only Wednesday. But Chris Day said the government is "committed to ensuring that Toronto gets its fair share."

"The city is an important part of our Economic Action Plan. The city has been hit by the global recession. With any investment we make in the city, our goal is to create jobs for the people of Toronto over the next two years – when they need them most," he said.

Baird is expected to remain in Ottawa Friday.

Queen's Park officials said it was still being determined whether Infrastructure Minister George Smitherman, the province's point person on the streetcars, would attend the announcement.

A streetcar announcement would be welcome news in the North, said Paul Pugh, head of the CAW local at the Bombardier plant.

"Assuming this goes through, it's going to be a huge thing for the city of Thunder Bay, to say nothing of the plant itself. This would provide much sought-after stability both for the city and the plant," he said.

"With 10 years of work, it will encourage Bombardier to make a much-needed investment in the plant in upgrading machinery and technology," he added.

Bombardier officials refused to comment.

The Quebec-based company won the contract after a tightly scrutinized procurement process and a competitive bid by German-based Siemens Canada. The new light rail vehicles, which will be similar to those in use in Brussels, will cost about $4.9 million each and accommodate 260 riders. They're longer than the existing cars and are expected to be tested on the city's tight turns and steep hills in 2011 before going into service in 2012.

The province has already agreed to pay for two-thirds of the $950 million to build Toronto a new Transit City light rail line on Sheppard Ave. Ottawa has agreed to one third of that cost, which includes the light rail vehicles.

In April, Queen's Park announced $7.2 billion for light rail lines running along Eglinton and Finch Ave. W., and to refurbish the Scarborough RT – the cost of which also includes the vehicles, which would be built as an option to the contract for the TTC's 204 replacement cars.

It's expected to take about another decade to replace the TTC's current fleet of 248 cars.

With files from Robert Benzie

 

[allabootmatt]

Well, here we go. Not clear what exactly this means; I am sure it's tricky to announce provincial funding of an amount that will keep the deal moving, but without offering to cover the federal share and taking the heat of Ottawa to act like grownups.

I wish the announcement were in Toronto. I have always thought this focus on Thunder Bay was silly, and typical of our inbred sheepishness about speaking up for ourselves. We need new streetcars because hundreds of thousands of people in Toronto depend on them for transport, not as a northern make-work project. The regional manufacturing benefits are just a bonus.

 

[khris]

Well, here we go. Not clear what exactly this means; I am sure it's tricky to announce provincial funding of an amount that will keep the deal moving, but without offering to cover the federal share and taking the heat of Ottawa to act like grownups.

I wish the announcement were in Toronto. I have always thought this focus on Thunder Bay was silly, and typical of our inbred sheepishness about speaking up for ourselves. We need new streetcars because hundreds of thousands of people in Toronto depend on them for transport, not as a northern make-work project. The regional manufacturing benefits are just a bonus.

The announcement should be where the money is going to be used. That would be Toronto.
Of course, that doesn't mean it's not news in Thunder Bay, as it's a large contract for a company in that city, but yeah, the announcement should be here.

 

[GenerationW]

The announcement should be where the money is going to be used. That would be Toronto.
Of course, that doesn't mean it's not news in Thunder Bay, as it's a large contract for a company in that city, but yeah, the announcement should be here.

Do they usually announce new car plants at car dealerships or where the new plant will actually be built? As long as we get our streetcars, let Thunder Bay have their glory and let's not be typically anal-retentive Toronto.