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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

^ I have the same question as the above. Is there any indication of which specific parts are proving to be problematic? I can't remember if this was covered in the big Star article. I do recall reading that there were challenges from Mexico with the car bodies.

From the article:

During a months-long Star investigation reporters spoke with current and former Bombardier executives and managers, line workers and union representatives in Thunder Bay and in Sahagun, TTC engineers and executives, Metrolinx employees, politicians, city hall insiders involved in the contract’s origins, and industry experts. We examined court documents, Bombardier’s contracts around the world, and filed freedom-of-information requests. While Bombardier has admitted the company had issues producing the streetcars, it would not respond to many questions about the details of production problems. “At this point we do not have the ability to chase down many of the technical questions, allegations or rumours,” said a spokesperson.

Among the key themes that emerged:

  • A failure to properly plan and design vehicles to fulfil the contract’s terms and meet the TTC’s demands. For example, wheelchair accessibility was the reason the city opted for the 100-per-cent low-floor model, yet over a period of three years Bombardier failed to design and order ramps that would adequately meet TTC requirements.
  • Persistent manufacturing quality issues. To take one example from dozens, at one point, the TTC discovered some of the electrical systems on the first nine vehicles would mysteriously turn on and off. Electrical connector pins in the cars had not been correctly installed and thousands needed to be manually checked while the cars sat idle.
  • An inability to co-ordinate a global production line. Car parts are supposed to be mass produced to a standard so they can be fit together easily, but so many pieces have been delivered in non-standard sizes and shapes that a TTC engineer characterized the assembly of vehicles in Thunder Bay as being “hand-built.” A factory worker characterized it more bluntly: “They take f---ing hammers and they smash the steel into shape, like it’s a f---ing dwarves’ forge.”
  • An inability to manage a supply chain. At one point in 2015, a quarter of Thunder Bay production line workers were temporarily laid off because they didn’t have enough parts on hand to work with. When the Star visited the plant in April 2017, a factory worker told us they sometimes lack the parts to do their jobs.
  • A tin ear to public and government partner concerns, particularly puzzling coming from a company whose customers are public agencies and which has received government bailouts. This was on display this spring when it was revealed Bombardier planned to pay six executives bonuses totalling $32 million, just weeks after receiving a $372.5-million loan from the federal government, and roughly a year after receiving $3.3 billion in investments from the Quebec government and that province’s pension fund. After public outcry, CEO Alain Bellemare said they had done a “bad job” explaining and the company deferred almost half of the increased compensation, making it dependent on company performance.
  • Repeated failure to properly diagnose problems to be able to set and meet a revised schedule. For example, in July 2015, Bombardier was insisting to the TTC that it would be producing four cars per month by September of that year — it has yet to hit that rate two years later (in the first months of this year, they have delivered one car per month).
...

Most notably, workers at the Sahagun plant were failing at what one official calls the “black art” of welding.

Components of the car were being produced at different sizes from what drawings specified. When assembled, the steel sidewalls were not flat, leaving gaps with mating parts. The parts needed extra attention when put together.

...

In early 2014, the mood in Bombardier’s Thunder Bay assembly plant was grim. Production was at a standstill. Not a single streetcar had left the plant in more than six months.

Veteran workers complained that long-standing problems with the assembly of the TTC Rocket subway car, which was also being built in Thunder Bay, hadn’t been resolved in years.

“We have way too much of some parts and not enough of some other parts,” wrote an anonymous worker in his union newsletter. “How does this happen?”

In a modern, 21st-century global manufacturing corporation, shipping parts to a plant for “just-in-time” assembly was supposed to be the most basic of tasks. Managers, the worker wrote in his “C Bay Rant,” had assured workers that streamlining the supply chain “was the easiest problem to solve.” But it was little more than talk, he concluded, because “Here we are two years later STILL WAITING FOR PARTS!!”

http://projects.thestar.com/bombardier-ttc/

It is now 2018. SSDD.

AoD
 
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^ I have the same question as the above. Is there any indication of which specific parts are proving to be problematic? I can't remember if this was covered in the big Star article. I do recall reading that there were challenges from Mexico with the car bodies.

If I recall correctly, the frames/flooring are sourced ex Bombardier Mexico. (Any problems here cannot be pooh poohed as a "supplier issue" because this is a company division, not an outside source.)

I think the bodies are subbed to a European source. There is a post mid-fall last year showing some being flown into TB using a large Russian cargo plane.

But these are not minor components. If you don't have a usable frame, that's pretty much the first thing needed to start the assembly process, therefore cars could not be stockpiled waiting for this item. But if frames are one of the issues why not call National Steel Car in Hamilton?

I've been there many times in capacity as a supplier and know they run a tight ship. They built 7000 cars for one client alone since 1999. Pretty sure it would be a piece of cake for them to whip up a couple hundred frames, wheel sets and bogies for BBD.

Too expensive you say? Would it cost more than the lost revenues of cars not shipped? Or the reduction of the Metrolinx order? Or the bad rep they now have for bidding in NYC or London England?
 
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I think the bodies are subbed to a European source. There is a post mid-fall last year showing some being flown into TB using a large Russian cargo plane.
Bombardier Vienna makes the cabs that were flown in, as I recall.

If you think "what's a component that a vehicle could be largely completed without (but not ship-able and fixed in Leslie), but might be backlogged because of ongoing fixes for significant problems" - I'm thinking doors.
 
Doors? I believe you, but how in the H E double hockey sticks does anyone do a QC process to check fit and operation of door/body construction if they are not built and shipped together?

Five years ago I saw this first hand with a customer tasked to make door frames and surrounds. I think they were for subway cars. Def not for this project, as the surrounds had rounded corners. In any case the frames were mandrel bent extrusions and the tolerance on the bends could not be held tight enough that the mounting holes could be drilled with a standard fixture. Every door frame and door was off by a few thousandths.

But on top of that, the machining process relieved some stress points and the assembled doors would sometimes warp out of position just enough that they wouldn't operate correctly. There were channels for electrical connections for lighting, signage and interlocks. They added up to such a high failure rate the supplier bailed as they were losing their shirt on every one. The doors really needed to be checked in a finished body, but it never happened.
 
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Haven't seen or heard what was said yesterday at TTC meeting about deliveries for this year, so what was said??
 
Is this official? BBD had already lowered their commitment from 70 + 76 for 2017/18 three times since October. Last update was not even a month ago, when they (incorrectly) insisted they were still on track to finish the contract on time in 2019.

Now they have shaved another 15 off the 2018 run? I wonder if they will issue a new monthly target list. Not that it means anything now, their credibility is zero at this point.
 
I'm surprised TorStar is not reporting on this. They have been all over this file for more than a year. Andy Byford made some speculative estimates late last year which did not agree with the "official" schedule. Turns out he was only out by one.
But I ask again...are these the official numbers from BBD or some estimates from TTC based on the reality of the situation?
There was a lot of scepticism that BBD could deliver 76 this year, but I never expected them to fold up this quick. That being said I don't think they can even get to the 120 mark. My guess is they will be at 110 deliveries by 12/31/18. Thats roughly one per week through this year and its still nearly double the output of 2017.
 
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Is this official? BBD had already lowered their commitment from 70 + 76 for 2017/18 three times since October. Last update was not even a month ago, when they (incorrectly) insisted they were still on track to finish the contract on time in 2019.

Now they have shaved another 15 off the 2018 run? I wonder if they will issue a new monthly target list. Not that it means anything now, their credibility is zero at this point.
Why would you, or anyone, believe a BBD estimate (and only BBD estimates can be based on 'facts' - those from TTC are presumably coming from BBD). We will get all 204 when we get all 204 and there really is little point in any of us getting all worked up about monthly figures or whether BBD has a huge warehouse in TB filled with cars that are 99% done and only need a tiny widget to be received and installed before they can be shipped off to the TTC. The people who DO need to be worried (as they are) are the TTC because the late deliveries mean they do not have enough vehicles to deliver their advertised service levels.
 
I'm surprised TorStar is not reporting on this. They have been all over this file for more than a year.
between the King Pilot, the new Provincial minister and her GO train ambitions, plus everything else on the go, there’s only so much of the excellent duo of Ben Spurr and Jennifer Pagliaro to go around.
 
Is this official?
I don't think so, I think TTC only had further numbers through end of Q1, which was 11 more. Though that wasn't clear to me if that was 11 more in addition to the 3 already arrived in 2018. I think this is a TTC guess.

At this rate, they'll still be delivering well into 2021. Clearly the ramp up did not work and there's no way they can deliver anything close to 76 cars this year.
12 delivered in 2015. 16 delivered in 2016. 29 delivered in 2017. 18 delivered in last 4 months of 2017. That is a ramp up.

If they maintain that, that is almost 60 a year. The original schedule called for a maximum of 36-39 a year.

Even if they only do 60 a year, and we still had 145 to come after end of 2017, that still means they should all be here by May 2021 - and the 60 add-on vehicles by May 2022.
 
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I don't think so, I think TTC only had further numbers through end of Q1, which was 11 more. Though that wasn't clear to me if that was 11 more in addition to the 3 already arrived in 2018. I think this is a TTC guess.

12 delivered in 2015. 16 delivered in 2016. 29 delivered in 2017. 20 delivered in last 4 months. That is a ramp up.

If they maintain that, that is 60 a year. The original schedule called for a maximum of 36-39 a year.

Even if they only do 60 a year, and we still had 145 to come after end of 2017, that still means they should all be here by May 2021 - and the 60 add-on vehicles by May 2022.
That will have the original contract being full fill 6 years later than contracted for come 2021, not including the extras.

Was expecting to see 4461 & 62 in service on Sat, but having major issues with the GPS system since Friday and still at this time.

BBD loves to play numbers games to the point its nothing. Ramp up is a joke since BBD was trying to save their ass for year end. If you use 11 or 14 for first Q1, that only 4 cars a month or 52 cars this year.
 
Was expecting to see 4461 & 62 in service on Sat, but having major issues with the GPS system since Friday and still at this time.

Just to be clear, who is having issues with the GPS? The TTC? Or the websites that rely on the data from the GPS? I'm not clear what's being referred to.
 

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