TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[drum118]

Just to be clear, who is having issues with the GPS? The TTC? Or the websites that rely on the data from the GPS? I'm not clear what's being referred to.

All the tracking systems are having issues with these 2 cars. No problem with cars in service.

There has always been an issue with the GPS for a few hours just before the cars are ready to go into service for the first time. These have been more than hours, but a few have been longer than normal, but not this long.

 

[Allandale25]

^ Guess it's better to just wait for reliable information from when the cars are in service, rather than the spottiness and guessing of when they are not.

 

[DSC]

^ Guess it's better to just wait for reliable information from when the cars are in service, rather than the spottiness and guessing of when they are not.

Of course, but will that stop UTers? (I doubt it!)

 

[nfitz]

That will have the original contract being full fill 6 years later than contracted for come 2021, not including the extras.

6 years later? I thought by the time the Ford administration delayed the signing of the contract, and TTC delayed the design of the ramps, that the contracted fulfillment date was 2019. Slipping 18 months isn't 6 years. And even then we are guessing.

Was expecting to see 4461 & 62 in service on Sat, but having major issues with the GPS system since Friday and still at this time.

4461 GPS looks fine. Parked in Leslie barn. Presumably 4462 as well, given it's not responding much.

BBD loves to play numbers games to the point its nothing. Ramp up is a joke since BBD was trying to save their ass for year end. If you use 11 or 14 for first Q1, that only 4 cars a month or 52 cars this year.

Which is still more than 29 last year, and exceeds the original 36-39.

It's a bit late, but it is a ramp-up.

 

[drum118]

6 years later? I thought by the time the Ford administration delayed the signing of the contract, and TTC delayed the design of the ramps, that the contracted fulfillment date was 2019. Slipping 18 months isn't 6 years. And even then we are guessing.

4461 GPS looks fine. Parked in Leslie barn. Presumably 4462 as well, given it's not responding much.

Which is still more than 29 last year, and exceeds the original 36-39.

It's a bit late, but it is a ramp-up.

If delivery dates are correct, 4461 has been here 17 days so far and has shown up on the tracker again after I posted. 4462 been here 12 days and still lost. Norm these days has been 10-12 days for cars to go into service, including the day they arrived. Both are in the Barns like they should be. Nothing is showing for 4462-4465 at all.

The last I heard the contract was for 2015, then pushed to 2018 due to ramp design and then to Nov 2019. The ramps were part of BBD design, but fail to meet TTC requirements, that TTC design it from what I know with input from ACAT.

Yes each year BBD has increase the number of deliveries, but fall well short of what they were supposed to be from day one.

It makes no different if its one year or 6 years late when the last car shows up, BBD is late 100% already and needs to pay the price for being late.

 

[nfitz]

If delivery dates are correct, 4461 has been here 17 days so far and has shown up on the tracker again after I posted.

Given that 4461 arrived on a Friday of a holiday week with 3 other units already being prepared for service, I'm not surprised it's not the fastest to appear. And no particular rush, as it seems there's a bit of a lull in arrivals.

Not sure about 4462 ... there was talk of some cars being shipped while they waited for some minor parts, to get them out of the way. Perhaps this is one of these?

The last I heard the contract was for 2015, then pushed to 2018 due to ramp design and then to Nov 2019. The ramps were part of BBD design, but fail to meet TTC requirements, that TTC design it from what I know with input from ACAT.

Back in June 2009 when council authorized approval of the contract, it was already into 2018. By June 2013 when the third prototype arrived, it was 2019.

I'd say TTC modified it, rather than designed it - assuming it was all TTC. TTC certainly uses the word 'modified'.

Yes each year BBD has increase the number of deliveries, but fall well short of what they were supposed to be from day one.

I'm more interested in rate, than measuring against an ancient schedule, which we all know they missed. In June 2013, the schedule was:

• 2013 - 9
• 2014 - 34
• 2015 - 36
• 2016 - 36
• 2017 - 39
• 2018 - 36
• 2019 - 14

Given that we were at 29 last year, and

It makes no different if its one year or 6 years late when the last car shows up, BBD is late 100% already and needs to pay the price for being late.

There's no indication they will even be 1-year late, unless you use a date they probably never even saw, let alone contracted to.[/QUOTE]

 

[Maltesefalcon]

I don't think so, I think TTC only had further numbers through end of Q1, which was 11 more. Though that wasn't clear to me if that was 11 more in addition to the 3 already arrived in 2018. I think this is a TTC guess.

12 delivered in 2015. 16 delivered in 2016. 29 delivered in 2017. 20 delivered in last 4 months. That is a ramp up.

If they maintain that, that is 60 a year. The original schedule called for a maximum of 36-39 a year.

Even if they only do 60 a year, and we still had 145 to come after end of 2017, that still means they should all be here by May 2021 - and the 60 add-on vehicles by May 2022.

Afaik BBD delivered 4 in Sept, 4 in October, 3 in November and 6 in December totalling 17 for their best 4 month period to date in 2017. It reaches 20 only when you also add in the January/18 deliveries, but that would be over five months. If you wish to point out that so far, the January shipments were built in December, then one could argue that the September ones were built in August....
As someone pointed out earlier BBD is contracted to supply the cars, and that includes delivering them to schedule. That should be the yardstick used.

 

[nfitz]

Afaik BBD delivered 4 in Sept, 4 in October, 3 in November and 6 in December totalling 17 for their best 4 month period to date in 2017. It reaches 20 only when you also add in the January/18 deliveries, but that would be over five months. If you wish to point out that so far, the January shipments were built in December, then one could argue that the September ones were built in August....
As someone pointed out earlier BBD is contracted to supply the cars, and that includes delivering them to schedule. That should be the yardstick used.

I was looking at about September 10, to January 10, when I said that. Which would be 4444 to 4462 ... oops, 19 not 20. Yes, it drops if nothing else comes in January after 4462 - I hadn't realised it was the 22nd already!

Yeah, I may have reached a bit far there.

Still the 3 month number for Oct-Dec (Q4) is is 13. The previous 3 quarters were 7, 6, and 3. Even if Q1 2018 is only 11, there's progress. (previous Q1 target was 17, Q2 was 21, Q3 was 16, and Q4 was 22 ... after which it drops to 18, 21, 18, and 6 next year.

 

[rbt]

The last I heard the contract was for 2015, then pushed to 2018 due to ramp design and then to Nov 2019. The ramps were part of BBD design, but fail to meet TTC requirements, that TTC design it from what I know with input from ACAT.

I've never seen a final date earlier than end-of 2018. Of course, the first order completion date I know of was published in late 2011; though still well before the test vehicles were delivered.

 

[drum118]

4461 is finally in PM service on 504 at Dundas W station. 4462 up on St Clair doing testing. Never was out for the AM service.

First time that I know that either car has been out of the yard since last Friday. 4461 has been in and out of the yard a number times waiting for another bay to open up for what every.

 

[centralblue]

I had meant to post that I saw 4461 this evening about 4:30 eastbound on King at Tecumseth, it looked very shiny and new. no big dirt stain down the back. still no more deliveries or new of ones in transit. Not a good sign

 

[drum118]

I had meant to post that I saw 4461 this evening about 4:30 eastbound on King at Tecumseth, it looked very shiny and new. no big dirt stain down the back. still no more deliveries or new of ones in transit. Not a good sign

If we are supposed to get 11 cars by the end of March, the 3 December cars should show up in the next 2 weeks and will be fun to see BBD delivery 6 cars a month for rest of the year.

By the looks of things, 4461 and 62 weren't 100% built cars when they arrived or had some major issue that delay going into service. 21 days for 4461 and maybe 16-21 days for 4462, depending on current test time frame.

 

[Toronto1834]

From Fight Gridlock on Twitter. 4464 in Thunder Bay. https://twitter.com/fightgridlock/status/957347895052832770

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

no big dirt stain down the back

That's from the carbon in the trolley shoe as it wars down it goes down the back of the car.

 

[drum118]

4463 is not tracking and assuming it still no here and in transit, if 4464 is ready to be ship.

That will complete 2017 order/schedule and now onto 2018 unknown scheduling, other than 60 cars this year. I guess 4463 & 64 will be part of the 60 cars this year?

We may see 4462 in service Sunday.