TransitBart
Senior Member
4603 excellent...I want to see 4604....to 4753...
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drum118
Superstar
4579 doing its first test run on King St
lead82
Senior Member
Big question here: How likely is the TTC to order the additional 60 cars from Bombardier? 204 seems low if we want to improve service downtown.
rbt
Senior Member
Zero. There is a 0% chance of TTC ordering 60 cars from Bombardier.
Even if 60 was now the optimal number of cars to order, the politics would be horrible (cancelling a pre-existing option then tendering for the exact same thing at a ~50% higher price point).
It's 100 or nothing, and it will be an open tender.
drum118
Superstar
4594 has enter service on 501 After arriving November 29, 2019
raptor
Senior Member
felix123
Active Member
Personal opinion, but with such conviction lol
robmausser
Senior Member
Its really a shame we didnt go for the 60 option. Not only a good deal, but bombardier has re-proven themselves, and they already are in production. Its much more time/effort to start production up again and getting a different streetcar introduces more complexity onto the system with maintenance, training, etc.
drum118
Superstar
TTC would be no different having more than one type of car in their system like a number of Europe systems do today.
Well...........BDD shot themselves from day one for this mess and lucky the order was cancel like it should have been and gone to another manufacture, regardless of delay and cost. If this was in Europe, the order would been cancel long ago.
My choice of next manufacture is Stadler, follow by CAF. Both companies have plants in the US but can they handle the 100 car order?? CAF is doing Maryland Purple Line cars now and have done other systems. Stadler doing DMU and EMU cars now.
robmausser
Senior Member
So because another city runs less efficiently that means we should too?
drum118
Superstar
Who said they run less efficiently with 2-3 types of systems??? Those systems have no issues from what I been told.
felix123
Active Member
I don't think that's the argument that's being made for Bombardier. The order was a mess for years, but by the time the deadline came to exercise the option for an additional 60 streetcars, it was either Bombardier soon or another supplier much later. The city was understandably upset, but it let emotions get in the way of intelligent decision-making.
The result: significant logistics issues for the foreseeable future, and rthe 511 rumoured to be without streetcar service for four years!
dowlingm
Senior Member
TTC Annual Service Plan for 2020 (Updated)
This article is the second part of a series on the TTC’s 5 Year Service Plan & 10 Year Outlook. Just after I posted the article, the TTC replied to several queries about its content. This…
stevemunro.ca
Steve Munro said:
dowlingm
Senior Member
It's not like CAF didn't have their own problems
Delivery Date Improves But Kansas City Streetcar Faces Hurdles For March Start
This week's promise that the first of Kansas City's four streetcars will be delivered by Oct. 29 improved the chances of having the starter line open as…
www.kcur.org
CAF Production Slowdown Behind Delays in Delivering New Viewliner Cars to Amtrak
Delivery of new Amtrak Viewliner cars being built by CAF USA have fallen behind schedule due in part to CAF’s decision to unilaterally slow production of the cars and mechanical defects found in th…
csanders429.wordpress.com
robmausser
Senior Member
Anytime you have more complexity in a system it is always more expensive and more difficult to run. That doesn't need to be debated, thats Business 101.
First of all, "no issues" sounds like a laymen talk, every system has issues. So you are already losing credibility towards your argument. Secondly, just because a system has an acceptable amount of issues or complexity does not mean that it applies to our situation or that a better solution or outcome isn't possible given the parameters. Perhaps these european cities have a network that requires multiple types of vehicles, or maybe they were not given the opportunity to continue with an add-on order of the same vehicles. etc. etc.
I believe it was a mistake to not order more vehicles, and just out of wanting to come off as retributive towards Bombardier, sticking it to them for their delays, WE will be the ones that suffer, due to the complexity of a different streetcar tender.
We cut off our nose to spite the face.