News   Sep 17, 2021
 4.4K     8 
News   Sep 17, 2021
 850     1 
News   Sep 17, 2021
 1.4K     3 

TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

pstogios

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 21, 2013
Messages
1,101
Reaction score
770
No kidding. That particular underpass has been there since what - 1913? It predictably floods in every heavy rain.

Exactly. We should be smarter than this. There needs to be a SOP that if Control sees a major storm on the way (heck, just check the Weather Network on someone’s phone), streetcars are to divert away from known flood-prone sections. It isn’t rocket science.
 

Allandale25

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 19, 2007
Messages
6,490
Reaction score
8,443
so will 4471 be written off as flooded? Looks like the water reached half its height so I assume everything could be fried inside

Latest as best I can tell:

2vvy79F
 

Admiral Beez

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
9,840
Reaction score
3,563
You know it's Bombardier when despite being majorly flooded everyone at Leslie Barns is probably scratching their heads right now and saying "it really doesn't look any worse than before . . . "
It's not salt water. Poop and flushed goldfish aside, it can probably be cleaned up without a trip to Thunder Bay. Fuses are designed to protect the electrical systems, and besides, with the flat floor, aren't most of the mechanical bits in the roof?
 

crs1026

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Oct 16, 2014
Messages
7,264
Reaction score
10,786
It's not salt water. Poop and flushed goldfish aside, it can probably be cleaned up without a trip to Thunder Bay. Fuses are designed to protect the electrical systems, and besides, with the flat floor, aren't most of the mechanical bits in the roof?

There are plenty of pictures on Twitter of the two cars, sitting with water up to the windows, but with the interior lights still on and the next-stop devices still functioning. So yeah, the things are tough, and many components eg frame, bogies, trucks etc will simply need pressure washing.

There will be more serious things. I would guess that the traction motors are mostly shot, and perhaps the cab circuitry and any under-floor circuit boards will be partly or totally fried. Those things can be dried, tested, and/or replaced. I wonder how much of the sub-floor and interior panels are water-absorbent and may be warped or otherwise in need of replacement. And are there conduits or wiring harnesses that are compromised electrically.

So, a fair bit of teardown and rework is no doubt required, even if nothing major will be bent or structurally unsound.

- Paul
 

smallspy

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 27, 2009
Messages
4,503
Reaction score
4,641
I don't want the operator to risk safety or their jobs. I suggest it's time for some formal SOPs for floods or flood warnings.

There is an SOP for flooding. If water is 3 inches above the rail, stop and contact CIS.

The water was not yet that high when the car started through the underpass. It probably would have made it across safely had the auto not become disabled in front of it.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 

Admiral Beez

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
9,840
Reaction score
3,563
There are plenty of pictures on Twitter of the two cars, sitting with water up to the windows, but with the interior lights still on and the next-stop devices still functioning. So yeah, the things are tough, and many components eg frame, bogies, trucks etc will simply need pressure washing.

There will be more serious things. I would guess that the traction motors are mostly shot, and perhaps the cab circuitry and any under-floor circuit boards will be partly or totally fried. Those things can be dried, tested, and/or replaced. I wonder how much of the sub-floor and interior panels are water-absorbent and may be warped or otherwise in need of replacement. And are there conduits or wiring harnesses that are compromised electrically.

So, a fair bit of teardown and rework is no doubt required, even if nothing major will be bent or structurally unsound.

- Paul
Having toured the Leslie Barns at Doors Open Toronto, I was impressed with the mechanical and maintenance capabilities there. I am sure they'll have the two damaged cars stripped and tested by end of month, latest. It also helps that the Leslie Barns sit mostly idle for lack of vehicles.
 

Admiral Beez

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Apr 28, 2007
Messages
9,840
Reaction score
3,563
There is an SOP for flooding. If water is 3 inches above the rail, stop and contact CIS.

The water was not yet that high when the car started through the underpass. It probably would have made it across safely had the auto not become disabled in front of it.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Then change the SOP. If heavy rains are predicted (and they were), do not enter flood prone underpasses unless you have a clear run to the other side. If this can not be assured, stop the vehicle and call for support. The TTC field staff or TPS can then clear traffic at the half dozen spots where streetcars go below grade outside of a ROW.

If the water was less than 3 inches, what disabled the automobile in front?
 

AHK

Senior Member
Member Bio
Joined
Jan 12, 2010
Messages
1,402
Reaction score
3,891
It's not salt water. Poop and flushed goldfish aside, it can probably be cleaned up without a trip to Thunder Bay. Fuses are designed to protect the electrical systems, and besides, with the flat floor, aren't most of the mechanical bits in the roof?

While initial reports indicated the flooding was the result of a burst water main, and the comment above implies the flooding resulted from a broken sanitary sewer line, in all probability, the water backing up into the underpass was from the City's storm sewer system. The underpass being the low point in the area, when during a downpour the storm sewers get overloaded, they will back up either into basements, or in other low point locations similar to this, out of the storm drain manhole cover. And there was a major downpour at the time.

So very unlikely contamination from toilets or other human waste - the big issue here would be the typical problem of storm water runoff contaminated by animal and bird feces - the same stuff which has a history of contaminating Toronto's beaches after a major rainfall.
 

Northern Light

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
May 20, 2007
Messages
14,444
Reaction score
27,280
Location
Toronto/EY
While initial reports indicated the flooding was the result of a burst water main, and the comment above implies the flooding resulted from a broken sanitary sewer line, in all probability, the water backing up into the underpass was from the City's storm sewer system. The underpass being the low point in the area, when during a downpour the storm sewers get overloaded, they will back up either into basements, or in other low point locations similar to this, out of the storm drain manhole cover. And there was a major downpour at the time.

So very unlikely contamination from toilets or other human waste - the big issue here would be the typical problem of storm water runoff contaminated by animal and bird feces - the same stuff which has a history of contaminating Toronto's beaches after a major rainfall.

Not quite accurate. While the inner suburbs are largely separated sewers more than 90% of sewers in the 'old City' are combined.

Meaning storm water flows into the sanitary sewer. This is why you get the contamination warnings for 48 hours after a heavy rain fall.

Even where sewers are separated, if they have a flow-line down to Ashbridges or Humber treatment plants, the water will flow through combined sewers at some point.

There are dozens of combined sewer overflows in our ravine parks, and several out along the Lake as well.

I don't have the sewershed map for that particular area; but I would be very surprised if those aren't combined sewers.
 

nfitz

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Nov 10, 2007
Messages
24,153
Reaction score
4,409
Location
Toronto
Not quite accurate. While the inner suburbs are largely separated sewers more than 90% of sewers in the 'old City' are combined.
90% in the 1970s perhaps.

They've been slowly separating them from at least the 1960s!

Even at that, what flooded is very likely to be anything other than almost entirely rain or ground water, given how much dilution there'd be!

I'd think there'd be far more contamination issues anytime someone vomited!
 

W. K. Lis

Superstar
Member Bio
Joined
Dec 24, 2007
Messages
20,239
Reaction score
9,780
Location
Toronto, ON, CAN, Terra, Sol, Milky Way
No kidding. That particular underpass has been there since what - 1913? It predictably floods in every heavy rain. At the very least, paint a “do not enter if water is this high” marker on the wall. Instructing the operator to go ahead and take a chance is lame - and potentially an OHSA violation.

- Paul

The King Street West underpass was lowered, more sewer grates added, and storm water reservoirs added more than a couple of decades ago. Used to flood after almost thunderstorm. The result was less severe flooding, until this downpour. Wonder if the reservoirs were not cleaned out because of budget cuts?
 

Top