nfitz
Superstar
For rush-hour, absolutely, I agree. It's the off-peak services I'm more concerned about.
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TOareaFan
Superstar
I am not sure but the current fleet is not all operational in off peak are they (ie. some are parked)....it may just mean that there is less downtime for these new ones and they all run longer in each day....of course that might mean they will not last as long.
Epi
Active Member
The new capacity will be even higher than that in practice.
The new LRTs will have a ton of doors to enter through, and of course you can walk through them from front to back. Considering the amount of dead space that is now reduced (even though a current car is 15m, putting two 15ms together to make the new 30m LRT, you will have one less 'front' and one less 'back') and also because it's easier to get into the thing (more doors, all one long corridor), people will be spaced more efficiently along the car. Currently the back of streetcars much like buses are usually empty or less full than they could be, but that will be much less with the new LRTs.
As for frequencies decreasing, it won't matter for rush hour as bunching screws up frequencies anyway. For off-peak periods, I can't imagine the TTC running cars any less than they do now late at night. If they started to run trains every 10 minutes, I can see them bleeding ridership very, very fast.
waterloowarrior
Senior Member
Peel mayors cry foul over Toronto streetcars
http://www.mississauganews.com/article/28659
EMAIL PRINT REPORT TYPO
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By: Radhika Panjwani
June 18, 2009 10:28 PM - Ottawa's expected decision to fund streetcars for Toronto under the infrastructure stimulus plan is unfair to other municipalities who were specifically told they would not qualify if they submitted similar requests, say the mayors of Mississauga and Brampton.
Mayor Hazel McCallion and Brampton Mayor Susan Fennell say Ottawa insisted all along only projects that would stimulate the local economy would be considered under a $4-billion funding plan. But the City of Toronto disregarded the rules when it applied for European-style streetcars.
Toronto's request was initially turned down by Ottawa because it did not comply with the rules for submission.
Premier Dalton McGuinty and Toronto Mayor David Miller are expected to announce tomorrow in Thunder Bay that Ottawa has relented, and will fund the streetcars.
The investment will result in creation of jobs in Thunder Bay and Europe, instead of Toronto, the mayors said.
"It's really unfair to every other municipality who held back projects we could have submitted as well," said Fennell. "You shouldn't be able to play euchre with the public money..."
Fennell and McCallion directed their criticism at Ottawa during today's Peel Region general committee meeting, where a staff report on the infrastructure stimulus funding was tabled for discussion.
The mayors said even though they had been informed of the amount they'd receive — $92.6 million for Mississauga, $31 million for Brampton and $149.3 million for Peel — there was uncertainty over how the money would flow.
Furthermore, Ottawa is blatantly disregarding its own conditions, McCallion said.
"(Toronto) decided they didn't have a project that met the criteria," said McCallion. "That's the decision the Toronto Council made. If they win on that, there's a contract the other municipalities would like to put in and if that happens, the stimulus program is already down the drain."
McCallion said it's also frustrating for municipalities going ahead with projects solely on faith that federal money will flow, especially since Ottawa has not yet provided written agreements or contracts.
"If they really wanted people to get back to work, that contract should have been here by now," McCallion said.
rpanjwani@mississauga.net
http://www.mississauganews.com/article/28659
EMAIL PRINT REPORT TYPO
Bookmark/Search this post with:
By: Radhika Panjwani
June 18, 2009 10:28 PM - Ottawa's expected decision to fund streetcars for Toronto under the infrastructure stimulus plan is unfair to other municipalities who were specifically told they would not qualify if they submitted similar requests, say the mayors of Mississauga and Brampton.
Mayor Hazel McCallion and Brampton Mayor Susan Fennell say Ottawa insisted all along only projects that would stimulate the local economy would be considered under a $4-billion funding plan. But the City of Toronto disregarded the rules when it applied for European-style streetcars.
Toronto's request was initially turned down by Ottawa because it did not comply with the rules for submission.
Premier Dalton McGuinty and Toronto Mayor David Miller are expected to announce tomorrow in Thunder Bay that Ottawa has relented, and will fund the streetcars.
The investment will result in creation of jobs in Thunder Bay and Europe, instead of Toronto, the mayors said.
"It's really unfair to every other municipality who held back projects we could have submitted as well," said Fennell. "You shouldn't be able to play euchre with the public money..."
Fennell and McCallion directed their criticism at Ottawa during today's Peel Region general committee meeting, where a staff report on the infrastructure stimulus funding was tabled for discussion.
The mayors said even though they had been informed of the amount they'd receive — $92.6 million for Mississauga, $31 million for Brampton and $149.3 million for Peel — there was uncertainty over how the money would flow.
Furthermore, Ottawa is blatantly disregarding its own conditions, McCallion said.
"(Toronto) decided they didn't have a project that met the criteria," said McCallion. "That's the decision the Toronto Council made. If they win on that, there's a contract the other municipalities would like to put in and if that happens, the stimulus program is already down the drain."
McCallion said it's also frustrating for municipalities going ahead with projects solely on faith that federal money will flow, especially since Ottawa has not yet provided written agreements or contracts.
"If they really wanted people to get back to work, that contract should have been here by now," McCallion said.
rpanjwani@mississauga.net
Dan416
Senior Member
Well maybe if Mississauga and Brampton definitively decided on LRT for Hurontario and asked for it, maybe they'd pay for it. As it stands, they can't fund something they're still deciding on the technology for. I still think they should add Mississauga and Hamilton's streetcars to Toronto's order.
khris
Senior Member
The Hurontario LRT is only in the EA portion right now. Asking for them to pay for something that isn't even planned yet would make no sense.
TOareaFan
Superstar
I don't think either mayor is speaking specifically of streetcars....they are saying that they did not submit certain requests for funding because they were told they would not qualify and that only qualifying projects would be funded. Their beef is that a similar warning/threat about Toronto's non-qualifying submission has just been ignored.
If true....its a fair beef.
khris
Senior Member
Yes I know. It is a very fair observation on their part.
GraphicMatt
Looking forward to a FRESH START for Toronto
Doesn't look like the feds are going to be funding the streetcars so it's kind of irrelevant.
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ntos-plea-for-streetcar-funds/article1188273/
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ntos-plea-for-streetcar-funds/article1188273/
RedRocket191
Senior Member
Yeah, the article is kind of irrelevant now.
The mayors have a valid concern and they don't at the same time. Yes you want the rules to be universally applied, but at the same time is it really reasonable to expect that the elephant in the room could be governed by the same rules that were meant for mice?
I'm still not convinced that these rules ever even mattered though...
The mayors have a valid concern and they don't at the same time. Yes you want the rules to be universally applied, but at the same time is it really reasonable to expect that the elephant in the room could be governed by the same rules that were meant for mice?
I'm still not convinced that these rules ever even mattered though...
drum118
Superstar
TTC held 3 nights of open house for the new Carhouse for the existing fleet for those who miss it or didn't know about it.
Only 3 sites had plans as the new complex will look like for them.
A large number opposed the Eastern one for various reason. One group want the existing land for the film industry while another don't want the extra noise from the yard or the movement of the cars past their doors.
Adam was dealing with a bee nest of complaints.
This should have been done 2 years ago.
My choices is Unwin as it has more land to allow for expansion as it will have to happen to cover the 50 cars that TTC is short base on TTC 2005 report for 2015. Unwin is part of the Waterfront new transit line to be built over the next 25 years.
Talking to a few folks that live on Connaught Ave who thought they would be free of TTC after one of these sites come on line as they said TTC was a bad neighbour due to the noise level as well driver speeding and fail to stop at the stop signs. When I told them TTC was not moving, they came upset. I pointed out to them that these yards were around long before they were born and had the right to be they as well why they should be. One person said "my house is over a 100 years old and therefore I more rights to live here than TTC". He fail to catch on to my comments that he had the choice to move into this area and accept the TTC operation or move else where. He still had that option today to live with it or move since he fail to do his homework in the first place before buying the house.
Only 3 sites had plans as the new complex will look like for them.
A large number opposed the Eastern one for various reason. One group want the existing land for the film industry while another don't want the extra noise from the yard or the movement of the cars past their doors.
Adam was dealing with a bee nest of complaints.
This should have been done 2 years ago.
My choices is Unwin as it has more land to allow for expansion as it will have to happen to cover the 50 cars that TTC is short base on TTC 2005 report for 2015. Unwin is part of the Waterfront new transit line to be built over the next 25 years.
Talking to a few folks that live on Connaught Ave who thought they would be free of TTC after one of these sites come on line as they said TTC was a bad neighbour due to the noise level as well driver speeding and fail to stop at the stop signs. When I told them TTC was not moving, they came upset. I pointed out to them that these yards were around long before they were born and had the right to be they as well why they should be. One person said "my house is over a 100 years old and therefore I more rights to live here than TTC". He fail to catch on to my comments that he had the choice to move into this area and accept the TTC operation or move else where. He still had that option today to live with it or move since he fail to do his homework in the first place before buying the house.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
Lots of contradictory stuff in today's news re: the streetcar bid. I guess we will find out details shortly, but it seems safe to assume that the province and City have worked out some kind of arrangement that will keep things moving through 27th June while something is negotiated with the feds. It sounds like Baird got a real ribbing in Question Period on this from Bob Rae and Jack Layton, which counts as a rare example of our MPs actually standing up for Toronto in the House.
Baird's offer of moving up other projects to offset the streetcars seems at once generous and incredibly silly. So, it's OK for Ottawa to fund streetcars, but only if we disguise it as pothole-filling? That seems like a silly use of federal money.
Baird's offer of moving up other projects to offset the streetcars seems at once generous and incredibly silly. So, it's OK for Ottawa to fund streetcars, but only if we disguise it as pothole-filling? That seems like a silly use of federal money.
DavidH
Senior Member
http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/article/653437
The article says the announcement is for 2/3 of the funding, as a way of putting pressure on the feds.
Sigh.
The article says the announcement is for 2/3 of the funding, as a way of putting pressure on the feds.
Sigh.
allabootmatt
Senior Member
Yes, I saw that; however I'm not sure that The Star's read of the situation is accurate. There is more here than meets the eye.
Anth
Active Member
Except that Mississauga and Brampton are hardly mice. More like parts of the same elephant.
That said, this kind of intra-GTA whining is annoyingly counterproductive and an argument for political integration of the region. We should be working and lobbying as one.