TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[Cobra]

Bombarider and Seimens are currently in the process to set up a joint venture to bid on all future operation tenders to compete with the Chinease. So Bombardier won't be bidding on the next Go transit operations, this new joint venture would be. Really when you only have a handful of players in the field limiting options for the government is just bad for tax payers.

Alstom deserves more Canadian love in the future

 

[dowlingm]

4441
https://twitter.com/chrisjamesdrew/status/889933624518299648

 

[drum118]

Still no word when we will see pans. Someone did say it was to be fall of 2018 with testing being done on St Clair. I would say 2017 since this line has been ready since 2010 for it and some upgrading took place the last 2 years. Then why St Clair when 510 was done for 2014 to the point we have 509, 510 and 511 ready, unless I miss a section on 511.

Conversion of Overhead Contact Systems Poles to Pantographs

 

[steveintoronto]

Alstom deserves more Canadian love in the future

There's more to that statement than you may have intended. In Europe, *consensus amongst some* is that if/once BBD and Siemens do merge, at least certain divisions, Alstom is pretty much left out in the cold. And a few others. Alstom North Am could be their saving grace.

This is going to be a complicated subject though, as EU regulators aren't going to just roll-over and approve the Siemens-BBD tie-up (for two divisions).

Meantime, to really confuse an already complicated issue, even in retrospect:

Bombardier turned down Chinese bid for its rail unit: report
State-owned company that owns Beijing subway lines bid for up to 100% of Bombardier Transportation
CBC News Posted: Sep 09, 2015 12:32 PM ET Last Updated: Sep 09, 2015 5:12 PM ET

Bombardier Inc. has turned down an offer to buy up to 100 per cent of its rail division from China's Beijing Infrastructure Investment Co., according to a report from Reuters.

Reuters said it has seen an Aug. 14 letter in which the Chinese state-owned firm, which operates 18 metro lines in Beijing, offered to buy 60 to 100 per cent of the rail unit.

• Bombardier to spin out rail unit in IPO but maintain control
• Chinese firms looking to buy stake in Bombardier rail unit, reports say

Louis Veronneau, Bombardier's vice-president for mergers and acquisitions, replied in another letter that the company wasn't interested in selling a majority stake.

Bombardier Transportation is one of the world's largest suppliers of subway, streetcar and other rail equipment for mass transit systems and accounts for about half the parent company's overall business. [...]

http://www.cbc.ca/news/business/bom...hinese-bid-for-its-rail-unit-report-1.3220915

The Chinese could smell the Pea Soup cooking...that might have been an offer BBD should have taken, we'll see...

 

[muller877]

Still no word when we will see pans. Someone did say it was to be fall of 2018 with testing being done on St Clair. I would say 2017 since this line has been ready since 2010 for it and some upgrading took place the last 2 years. Then why St Clair when 510 was done for 2014 to the point we have 509, 510 and 511 ready, unless I miss a section on 511.

Conversion of Overhead Contact Systems Poles to Pantographs

If we don't have pan dedicated lines in 20 more trains (before the end of the year) then it means that BBD is not the only one that is late. Are any ready (with traffic diversion routes as well)? Will the TTC be ready to limit the running of the pan only trains to these lines with automatic shut-downs if a driver accidentally goes to a line that is not pan-ready?

Or is the TTC asking for a modification to to the order that includes poles on more than 60 cars?

 

[cplchanb]

If we don't have pan dedicated lines in 20 more trains (before the end of the year) then it means that BBD is not the only one that is late. Are any ready (with traffic diversion routes as well)? Will the TTC be ready to limit the running of the pan only trains to these lines with automatic shut-downs if a driver accidentally goes to a line that is not pan-ready?

Or is the TTC asking for a modification to to the order that includes poles on more than 60 cars?

I think from an earlier discussion most of the line has been converted (correct me if I'm wrong) however as with typical ttc they want everything done before switching once. Imo they should gwt lines swapped over asap since ot will give an opportunity to fix bugs on a smaller scale rather than to risk the whole network requiring a reversion

 

[smallspy]

Or is the TTC asking for a modification to to the order that includes poles on more than 60 cars?

All cars will be delivered with poles and pantographs.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[cplchanb]

All cars will be delivered with poles and pantographs.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

I think it was discussed earlier but what are the financial implications for deleting the pole? it would seem such a waste of money if the latter cars will never deploy their poles in 2018/9. If there is going to be a credit for them deleting it along with all the wiring costs why not do it? you might as well save a few extra bucks while you can since most of the city is value engineered anyways

 

[steveintoronto]

Streetcars with Poles *and* Pantographs are Hermaphrodites.

 

[robmausser]

Streetcars with Poles *and* Pantographs are Hermaphrodites.

Trump bans all Toronto streetcars from serving in the military.

 

[smallspy]

I think it was discussed earlier but what are the financial implications for deleting the pole? it would seem such a waste of money if the latter cars will never deploy their poles in 2018/9. If there is going to be a credit for them deleting it along with all the wiring costs why not do it? you might as well save a few extra bucks while you can since most of the city is value engineered anyways

You're talking about *maybe* a savings of $500 per car - and that's likely being generous. And considering that in the interim that the TTC has been able to save a bunch of money by not upgrading the overhead as quickly as originally planned, I'm fairly certain that it's working out in the TTC's favour.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I think it was discussed earlier but what are the financial implications for deleting the pole? it would seem such a waste of money if the latter cars will never deploy their poles in 2018/9. If there is going to be a credit for them deleting it along with all the wiring costs why not do it? you might as well save a few extra bucks while you can since most of the city is value engineered anyways

I wonder if it will be a decision they make once the entire streetcar network is ready to get rid of poles?

 

[KevinT]

Conversion of Overhead Contact Systems Poles to Pantographs

And considering that in the interim that the TTC has been able to save a bunch of money by not upgrading the overhead as quickly as originally planned, I'm fairly certain that it's working out in the TTC's favour.

I'm still baffled that the Flexies can run off a pole at all, given that the article drum linked says:

Extensive testing was undertaken with an ALRV that was altered to draw the same current through the trolley pole as the Flexity streetcar would draw using the longer TTC shoe as the current collector shown in Fig. 5. It was surmised that the longer carbon would be able to handle the added current draw of the new streetcars. To negotiate trolley frogs, the side walls of the shoe were kept the same length as the standard shoe but the shoe body and carbon were lengthened. The long shoe worked extremely well tracking through trolley frogs, crossover pans and curve pullover ears but with sustained currents of over 1,000 amperes flowing, it could not resist the heating affects and at one point during the testing, the shoe became so hot that it glowed red.

It was evident from this testing that trolley poles with a modified carbon shoe for addition current draw were insufficient and pantograph current collectors had to be adopted. From this determination, preparations were made to convert the overhead system.

Yet here we are today, with 40 Flexities happily running off poles. What's changed?

 

[smallspy]

Yet here we are today, with 40 Flexities happily running off poles. What's changed?

They have gone to a larger-sized contact wire as part of the upgrades to the overhead. Perhaps that's helping?

As far as I can tell, and from what all of my contacts have told me, the Flexities seem quite happy running with the poles.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

They have gone to a larger-sized contact wire as part of the upgrades to the overhead. Perhaps that's helping?

thats for the pantographs. most of the network is still the old style of wire. You can see in some places though where they have both of them with the new wire in short sections.