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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

georgevicbell said:
So I read that it takes about 4kwh to move a Toronto streetcar 1km...powerpack2 by Tesla is 200kwh...so 50km, plenty for a trailer type situation...cost is about $150,000...which works out to $30million...@5000 cycles that's maybe 5 years before a replacement battery is needed....

Obviously there are lots of caveats with this - you can't just hook a power pack up and add wheels, etc. etc...but it doesn't look totally ridiculous to see this becoming doable by BBD or Alstrom in the future.
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At the moment a lot of the power a PowerPack could give would be sucked up by hauling it around - they look heavy. The other challenge for battery makers is the huge temperature swings in Toronto over the course of the year.
 
dowlingm said:
At the moment a lot of the power a PowerPack could give would be sucked up by hauling it around - they look heavy. The other challenge for battery makers is the huge temperature swings in Toronto over the course of the year.
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They actually wouldn't add that much - power pack 2 is 3500lbs - flexity is 103000lbs - so only 3% for the batteries - or it'd be like hauling 25 people around in a trailer behind the vehicle - I don't imagine they would have trouble with this even if it was full...
 
georgevicbell said:
They actually wouldn't add that much - power pack 2 is 3500lbs - flexity is 103000lbs - so only 3% for the batteries - or it'd be like hauling 25 people around in a trailer behind the vehicle - I don't imagine they would have trouble with this even if it was full...
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Powerpack is usually pictured in a fixed location though. Making it robust enough for mobile use/crash proofing might add a bit more. But Tesla are also in the mobile power space so I guess that could be worked out, as long as the end result did not result in the LRV exceeding max axle weights in any segment.
 
georgevicbell said:
So I read that it takes about 4kwh to move a Toronto streetcar 1km...powerpack2 by Tesla is 200kwh...so 50km, plenty for a trailer type situation...cost is about $150,000...which works out to $30million...@5000 cycles that's maybe 5 years before a replacement battery is needed....

Obviously there are lots of caveats with this - you can't just hook a power pack up and add wheels, etc. etc...but it doesn't look totally ridiculous to see this becoming doable by BBD or Alstrom in the future.
Click to expand...

I would double-check those figures....it's been a while since I saw the numbers on the TTC's cars, but I seem to recall that each of the 6 TMs is rated at about 150kw at full blast. And you also need to take into account powering the control systems, lights, doors and other ancillaries, and then losses in the conversion from DC to AC.

I would love to know what the power pack on the cars is rated for, as I've never seen the numbers for it. But it wouldn't surprise me if it it was good for a kilometre or two at low speeds.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
smallspy said:
I would double-check those figures....it's been a while since I saw the numbers on the TTC's cars, but I seem to recall that each of the 6 TMs is rated at about 150kw at full blast. And you also need to take into account powering the control systems, lights, doors and other ancillaries, and then losses in the conversion from DC to AC.

I would love to know what the power pack on the cars is rated for, as I've never seen the numbers for it. But it wouldn't surprise me if it it was good for a kilometre or two at low speeds.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
Click to expand...
http://www.bombardier.com/content/d...er-Transportation-EPD-FLEXITY-Valencia-en.pdf

Page 3 - says 3.7 kwh for the flexity outlook with 155 passengers and traffic lights etc as part of the simulation...

The power packs are actually just repackaged Model S batteries...according to the Tesla site...so one assumes that means they would be ok for transportation...

Powerpack specs are at: https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/powerpack

They look like they are a reasonable size - something that would fit in a lane of traffic...
 
georgevicbell said:
There is also potential for a battery trailer....which would save retrofitting...essentially just a box with wheels and batteries wired straight into where the poles attach...maybe just buy a few Tesla battery units add some wheels and cable it right in.
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A couple of problems with that one Tesla isn't relly sharing it's bater technology right now plus they are currently very expensive, It's actually the most expensive part of a Tesla car. Alops adding to the length of an almost 100 foot vehicle with a trailer could lead to many other problems. Plus you would also need to charge the batteries somehow. The system used in Detriot seems to have a few places along the route and terminals hwe they can raise the Pantograph to charge the onboard batteries.
 
georgevicbell said:
http://www.bombardier.com/content/d...er-Transportation-EPD-FLEXITY-Valencia-en.pdf

Page 3 - says 3.7 kwh for the flexity outlook with 155 passengers and traffic lights etc as part of the simulation...

The power packs are actually just repackaged Model S batteries...according to the Tesla site...so one assumes that means they would be ok for transportation...

Powerpack specs are at: https://www.tesla.com/en_CA/powerpack

They look like they are a reasonable size - something that would fit in a lane of traffic...
Click to expand...

I hadn't seen that one. Thanks for passing it along.

I do believe, however, that the Valencia cars have only 2 powered trucks versus the 3 under the TTC's Flexities. It won't change the power consumption numbers in a huge manner, but power consumption will be higher here.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Easier to run longer uptown cars at 750V, since that reduces the amperage requirement somewhat to deliver the same input power compared to the 600V downtown.
 
Steve X said:
They solved the 504's Flexity problem at Broadview Station. Just don't dispatch any on that line.
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I think it has more to do with running them on the same headways as with a CLRV so they get closer together and then get bunched up. Spadina used to be worse then it is now until they made adjustments to the headways between cras.
 
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