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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

First off, You can't blame Miller or any Mayor regarding how TTC order their equipment.

You start off with how TTC writes the spec's and then you put the blame at the feet of Queen Park who tell TTC who to buy large orders from since they are funding them in the first place by various means.

TTC writes spec's for various things that are skew to various suppliers to the point various bids get only one bidder to a few bidders who will bid high knowing they they will not get the contract in the first place and keep their foot in the door hoping thing will change down the road.

Everyone can say there was a true bid for these cars since there were 2 bidders, but not the case. If you talk to the suppliers that didn't bid or could have bid, they will tell you another story to the point why would they spend $$ preparing a bid when it was known the order was going to Thunder Bay, who has been building TTC rolling stock for decades in the first place.

Just because a supplier doesn't have a plant in Ontario or Canada doesn't mean they can't set one up. One only has to look to the US to see this with new plants being built in the bidder backyard these days that never had a plant in the US before.

If the Province doesn't take their head out of the sand and do a true bidding process on all future order for TTC and Metrolinx, we will be paying throw the nose on all future order as well delays. Its the taxpayer money and time all parties who were in power in the past and future understand this and its their job to obtain the best of what every for the best price regardless where it come from. Doing this will reduce the capital cost on buying things as well help to reduce the debit load on everyone.

Are we going to see other problems show up once one Flexity pushes another down the road like this mess???
 
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drum118 said:
Just because a supplier doesn't have a plant in Ontario or Canada doesn't mean they can't set one up. One only has to look to the US to see this with new plants being built in the bidder backyard these days that never had a plant in the US before.
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Well said, and you don't even have to go that far. Alstom Citadis constructed an assembly plant in Orleans specifically to win Ottawa's O-Train replacement over Bombardier.

The better solution is to follow Vancouver's bid for their Skytrain, where, IIRC, they removed plant location from the tender considerations, enabling Hyundai Rotem to win. But I may have that wrong, and perhaps it was Calgary. No time to check, gotta work.
 
Once the pantographs are in operation and any other factors permit, presumably it will be preferable to take a Flexity ahead of the disabled car out of service, reverse to its location and pull it out.
 
dowlingm said:
Once the pantographs are in operation and any other factors permit, presumably it will be preferable to take a Flexity ahead of the disabled car out of service, reverse to its location and pull it out.
Click to expand...

That isn't always possible - depending on circumstances the car ahead may have travelled a long ways ahead.

The car's traction control may simply have too much adhesion for the task (hard to believe we're complaining about this - it's a good thing in most ways). Maybe a tweak is needed - or maybe the operators will learn not to push quite as hard as they might have with the previous models.

- Paul
 
And update on the derailment - the cause of it was due to the operator in the pushed CLRV hitting the brakes in the middle of the curve from east-to-west King to Bathurst while the operator of the Flexity was still on the power. As well as the Flexity derailing, the tow bar also broke in the incident.

As for the amount of time it took to rerail the car - they managed to rerail the car in short order after the original derailment, only to have it derail again. My contact hasn't been able to find out what the cause of the second derailment as yet.

As for damage, well, there was none. The car was back in service yesterday afternoon.

crs1026 said:
The car's traction control may simply have too much adhesion for the task (hard to believe we're complaining about this - it's a good thing in most ways). Maybe a tweak is needed - or maybe the operators will learn not to push quite as hard as they might have with the previous models.

- Paul
Click to expand...

The cars are designed with a traction control system that is tied in with both the load weighting and and a set of sensors. The units will always accelerate at the same rate regardless of rail conditions, how loaded the car is and the grade.

On top of this, they have a "tow mode" which will apply more power to the traction motors and cause the track brakes to engage at a higher speed. The CLRVs and ALRVs also have a similar mode which does the same for them as well. It generally doesn't need to be engaged when pushing or pulling a CLRV, but I don't know if it was also implicated in the incident yet.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
Admiral Beez said:
Well said, and you don't even have to go that far. Alstom Citadis constructed an assembly plant in Orleans specifically to win Ottawa's O-Train replacement over Bombardier.
Click to expand...
Have you got a cite for that? I thought all the work was being done in the MSF, and that Alstom were selected because they were in the winning consortium rather than any local considerations?
 
dowlingm said:
Once the pantographs are in operation and any other factors permit, presumably it will be preferable to take a Flexity ahead of the disabled car out of service, reverse to its location and pull it out.
Click to expand...

Easy on a rapidway, but reversing for a block or two in rush hour traffic? Good luck. They need to figure out a routine way of pulling these with a truck...
 
dowlingm said:
Have you got a cite for that? I thought all the work was being done in the MSF, and that Alstom were selected because they were in the winning consortium rather than any local considerations?
Click to expand...

This is correct, and the facility is in a fairly central inner suburb near St. Laurent and Industrial, nowhere near Orleans.
 
It's amazing what the media will do to spin a story. The way most reports came out of Toronto, they focused on the fact that it was a newer streetcar that derailed to make it appear as though it was Bombardier at fault. I mean trust me i'm all for blaming Bombardier on anything, but they should at least focus on what actually caused the problem when those facts come out.

Perhaps it's a Canadian company thing, since they do the same thing with Blackberry; making it seem as though they stopped releasing querty based phones, when in fact they plan on releasing another one.
 
A small delay maybe experienced at the Bathurst & Dupont & Spadina area, with rail traffic deliveries... like streetcars.

See link.

Freight train derailment in Toronto causes diesel fuel leak

Crews were working to contain a fuel leak after a Canadian Pacific Railway train collided with another on Sunday morning near Dupont St. and Spadina Rd., causing one of the trains to derail.

afwtrainderail03jpg.jpg.size.custom.crop.1086x724.jpg

A CP Rail freight train derailed in the heart of Toronto, near Bridgman and Howland Aves., East of Bathurst and Dupont Sts. early Sunday, after collideing with another train. No injuries were reported, but crews were working to contain a diesel fuel leak.
 
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