TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[cplchanb]

This revised streetcar deployment would delay the allocation of new low-floor streetcars to 511 BATHURST by approximately three months, assuming that the current delivery schedule is achieved.

Anyone want to wager on this? lol

 

[crs1026]

Well, bless my Lucky Charms, as the cereal commercial used to say. It seems something is being released from Thunder Bay.

- Paul

 

[Steve X]

The 514 is going to need more than a dozen streetcars. At the current rate, the delay will be more than 20 months!

 

[dowlingm]

Is prioritising 514 over 511 for low floors a mistake, given the Ex?

EDIT: hmm, maybe not since that does give an accessible* streetcar route from Dufferin Loop and not merely Union.

 

[DSC]

Is prioritising 514 over 511 for low floors a mistake, given the Ex?

The Ex lasts for two weeks, the 504 is the busiest route all year.

 

[Megaton327]

Is prioritising 514 over 511 for low floors a mistake, given the Ex?

EDIT: hmm, maybe not since that does give an accessible* streetcar route from Dufferin Loop and not merely Union.

The Ex lasts for two weeks, the 504 is the busiest route all year.

Additionally, last year the TTC made substantial deployment changes to the LFLRVs, and some streetcar route changes, for the CNE.

If memory serves, LFLRVs were 100% removed from 510, and reallocated entirely to 509 and 511 to serve the CNE. Additionally, the 510 Union branch was cancelled, all 510 service terminated at Queen's Quay and Spadina (don't recall if they still did turns at Charlotte or if 100% was to QQ), and 509 service ramped up even more than usual for the CNE to account for the dropped 510 Union branch.

Conceivably they might do something similar this year--keep some LFLRVs running 514 out of Dufferin Loop, then use some LFLRVs from Spadina for increased 509 service with the 510 Union branch cut once again, and possibly even leave Spadina with only a couple of LFLRVs moving a few onto 511 as well, if it hasn't received any by then.

Definitely a lot of different ways they could handle it.

 

[drum118]

The CEO report show the new cars are failing a lot sooner than they are supposed to: New Streetcar Mean Distance Between Failures Jan 2016 12,044 km 35,000 km
https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2016/March_23/Reports/Chief_Executive_Officer's_Report_March_2016_Update.pdf
https://www.ttc.ca/About_the_TTC/Commission_reports_and_information/Commission_meetings/2016/March_23/Reports/Overhaul_of_30_Canadian_Light_Rail_Vehicles_(CLRV)_and_Maint.pdf

With luck, TTC should have 17 extra cars than now come the EX to maintain cars on all 4 routes though they will not be 100%.

 

[GenerationW]

The CEO report show the new cars are failing a lot sooner than they are supposed to

Well of course they are!

 

[dowlingm]

Wish it was clearer why they are choosing to refurb CLRVs than some of the remaining non-refurbed ALRVs. Presumably these ones are in *really* bad shape so not "worth" it, but 10 of them still need to run until 2019...

 

[W. K. Lis]

There's a report at the next meeting of the TTC on the Overhaul of 30 Canadian Light Rail Vehicles (CLRV) and Maintaining non-Overhauled Streetcars in a State of Good Repair at this link.

It is recommended that the Board approve:

1. Overhaul of thirty (30) Canadian Light Rail Vehicles (CLRVs) as a Capital Project at an estimated final cost (EFC) of $9.1 million;

2. Refurbishment of critical mechanical, pneumatic and electrical components to maintain the non-overhauled CLRVs in a state of go
od repair at an operating cost of $17.5 million;

3. Refurbishment of critical mechanical, pneumatic and electrical components to maintain the non-overhauled ALRVs in a state of good repair at an operating cost of $7.5 million;

4. Staff to proceed with the identified work in advance of Council approval in order to meet and maintain Streetcar service;

5. Staff to accrue costs and apply these costs to future claims allowed for in the Bombardier Transportation contract under liquidated damages; and

6. Submission of this report to City of Toronto Council for approval.​

 

[wolfewood]

Just to confirm, have any older streetcars been overhauled or rebuilt to a state of good repair yet? Obviously 30 CLRVs are about to but I feel like I remember reading that some ALRVs were repaired a while back. Am I remember right? And if I am, how much of the older LRV fleet will have been rebuilt due to Bombardier's delays?

 

[nfitz]

Just to confirm, have any older streetcars been overhauled or rebuilt to a state of good repair yet? Obviously 30 CLRVs are about to but I feel like I remember reading that some ALRVs were repaired a while back. Am I remember right? And if I am, how much of the older LRV fleet will have been rebuilt due to Bombardier's delays?

Yes - 30 ALRVs are being rebuilt even more extensively than this new CLRV rebuilt. Including new floors.

See https://www.ttc.ca/News/2015/October/1015_streetcar_rebuild.jsp

I believe they've done 3 to date (4208, 4217, and 4249) with 3 more underway (4200, 4225, and 4229).

The new floors are the key way to identify them. Though I've only seen them from the outside so far - and haven't noticed anything different.

 

[ottbike]

The new floors are the key way to identify them. Though I've only seen them from the outside so far - and haven't noticed anything different.

New LED brake/signal lights and LED green/red lights beside the destination signs.

 

[wolfewood]

Awesome, so we'll have 60 extra streetcars until the Bombardier order is done. So, on a more hypothetical note, what should we do with them after the order is completed? (That is, what should we be doing in 2035 ) The 60 cars we keep won't be accessible so for general capacity we'd want newer cars but could the 60 be useful as rush hour trippers? Obviously it would suck if someone had mobility issues and got stuck in the rain or snow while everyone around them got on board an older car but it'd be a useful way to provide rush hour service from my uneducated perspective.

 

[nfitz]

Here's the details on the new (January 30th) streetcar delivery timetable from the March 23 CRLV Rebuild report. It only sees 40 delivered in 2016, compared to the 63 we'd been promised (the original plus they'd promised the missing 13 from 2015 by mid-year).

Essentially, they are deferring 25 streetcars until 2019. Though my guess is they'll never exceed 40, and at best they will be delivering at least 30 cars in 2020.


Also the new March 23 CEO report gives information on the Flexity failure rate. Essentially 12,000 km compared to the contractual target of 35,000 km. Apparently they have until car 60 to get this right. Though given the glowing reviews that TTC keeps giving the quality of the new cars, presumably this is as-expected, and will improve.

To put this in perspective, the CLRVs are currently 3,870 km and the ALRVs are only 2,091 km.