TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[cplchanb]

I think I have a new favourite currency .

only works if they actually get back on pace...otherwise well continue to wait endlessly

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I think I have a new favourite currency .

How exactly would you go about buying a subway sandwich with 1/600,000 of a streetcar?

 

[salsa]

How exactly would you go about buying a subway sandwich with 1/600,000 of a streetcar?

Easy.

Or even better: don't buy sandwiches from Subway.

 

[TOareaFan]

Easy.

View attachment 58041


Or even better: don't buy sandwiches from Subway.

But transit junkies when they think of food are all "subway, subway, subway"!

 

[salsa]

But transit junkies when they think of food are all "subway, subway, subway"!

Only if they're from Scarborough or have a last came called Ford. Perhaps Glen De Baeremaeker should have Subway Restaurant pay for naming rights for the Line 2 extension.

 

[pstogios]

If they'd got their act together, and TTC was still ragging, but fine.

But month after month Bombardier says they've fixed their problems, and month after month, they delay delivery by about a month.

Then in August, they swore that they had now ramped up to full production, being able to turn out a new streetcar every 5 days (presumably business days). Following whichm they took 45 days to deliver one vehicle.

And then, they just 2 weeks ago said they'd only deliver 19 by year-end (with 16 in service). Which means with 9 vehicles left to deliver, that's about 1 a week. In which case, by now, we should already have seen 4013 shipped from Thunder Bay.

This is beyond gross incompetence. The continuing claims that they have now fixed it all, are fraudulent.

TTC should be going for every penny that they should. They do this with local construction contractors. Why should they treat an international corporation with much experience in building streetcars any differently.

THIS.

I like that you've finally taken the gloves off.

It's time to hold Bombardier accountable.

 

[salsa]

In other words, we failed to deliver on our commitments, for which we blame somebody else for that.

 

[TOareaFan]

View attachment 58057

In other words, we failed to deliver on our commitments, for which we blame somebody else for that.

I wonder if they are suggesting that the TTC onsite inspections were too rigorous/tight and that has contributed to delays?

If they are laying the blame on their downstream suppliers that would be a losing strategy.....they contracted with TTC and anything that happens downstream is not a concern of the TTC's (I would imagine).

 

[nfitz]

THIS.

I like that you've finally taken the gloves off.

It's time to hold Bombardier accountable.

I've never said otherwise. I've simply challenged factually incorrect statements. I long-since called for heads to roll at Bombardier. Seems that more need to roll.

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

Everytime I read something about one of the delays I wonder how many of them could have happened to another manufacture. To me I see most of the delays as something that could have happened to anyone. Most Transit companies that have ordered streetcars from other companies and Bombardier haven't made the same size order as us because they were all either starting up an new system or replacing part of it. The TTC is replacing all of our current fleet. Heck I even saw something where parts for an order of streetcars in the US somewhere got left on a dock in europe because the ship failed to pick them up or something like that.

 

[pstogios]

Everytime I read something about one of the delays I wonder how many of them could have happened to another manufacture. To me I see most of the delays as something that could have happened to anyone.

Then why did Bombardier repeatedly claim revised schedules and repeatedly renege on those commitments?

 

[Promagstyle]

Then why did Bombardier repeatedly claim revised schedules and repeatedly renege on those commitments?

Bombardier Transportation has a lot of suppliers for different components of the Flexity. Not all major components of the Flexity are made by Bombardier Transportation themselves, for an example the air brakes for the Flexity could be made by Bendix or Wabco. Bearings could be made by numerous suppliers as well, such as Timken, SKF, and etc.

I guess the suppliers are promising Bombardier Transportation various parts and or components, but they are also plagued with sourcing materials and so on to manufacture those critical or crucial equipment that Bombardier needs to complete a Flexity. Sort of one thing leads to another and Bombardier Transportation only provides updates when they will get that part or receive that component to use it too complete the build of a Flexity.

For an example, take a look at Bombardier's Aerospace list of approved suppliers
- Not all components are made by Bombardier
- Bombardier Aerospace Suppliers (PDF)

 

[Lenser]

Never thought I'd see the day that the TTC actually takes Bombardier to court for its multiple delays in delivering new rolling units, but sad to say, that day has come. And it's about time. We have but a small fraction of the new units we were supposed to have by now. It's a travesty.

 

[Duck]

And why shoud the people of Toronto have to pay for Bombardier's incredible incompetence? I hope the TTC recovers every dime this nonsense has cost us.

I'm sorry, but I don't equate being a few months behind schedule on a 15-year contract with "incredible incompetence". I really think this is just TTC flexing its muscles and exercising its built-in option to get a huge discount on the units. They're posturing, so the General Public gets mad at Bombardier, not the TTC. A deflection to save face or hide other issues the TTC is dealing with (customer service...).

Bombardier Transportation has a lot of suppliers for different components of the Flexity.

Just a quick thank you for a very logical and constructive post. Most people have no idea how manufacturing actually works.

 

[Admiral Beez]

Ok, thanks that's comforting to know. Bombardier is my favourite company so it pisses me off when the TTC is always ragging on them.

Why would Bombardier be your favourite company?

They can't deliver anything on time, their best aerospace products are from outside firms (deHavilland Dash 8 and Lear Jet, the latter of which they're driving into the ground), when they try to launch their own aerospace products they fail (C series), they've sold off their most memorable assets to BRP, they offer nothing innovative in ground transportation.

Lastly they can't survive without Quebec and/or Canadians taxpayer bailouts of their poor business decisions, meanwhile they offshore Ontario jobs to Mexico in exchange for crap quality and inability to meet delivery commitments on TTC streetcars (that are as technologically advanced as trams Siemens was building in Europe in the 1990s).

So, why is this your favourite company?