TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[BB ON]

These things are really nice. Some people haven't quite clicked in that you can get on at all doors, and the tiny door at the back isn't an emergency exit.

Capturing the full destination sign while freezing the movement of the streetcar is proving quite challenging since it scans so slow.


• — — • by BB ON, on Flickr

 

[LNahid2000]

Is it just me or do these streetcars seem to move slower than the old ones? It seems like because there is no signal priority and the driver has to check the switches before proceeding to the far side stop, a lot of the time the streetcar never makes it to the other side without waiting a whole light cycle because the driver thinks the streetcar is too long to make it across the intersection in time. The few times I've rode the new streetcar, it seems like it's barely faster than walking.

 

[the lemur]

Still haven't had occasion to ride one of the new ones yet, but I have observed them in operation a few times.

I really like how well lit they are, inside and out, especially with the larger windows.

At one point I was waiting for the lights at Spadina/Sussex and a northbound streetcar made a stop. The stop announcement was very audible from outside with the doors open and when the driver honked at a pair of jaywalkers, the horn sounded like a real (car) horn, not the feeble buzz of some of the CLRVs.

 

[ksun]

The few times I've rode the new streetcar, it seems like it's barely faster than walking.

They are all barely faster than walking in central area.
But one can't complain because obviously millions of handicapped, really pregnant and 88 years olds need them to stop every 90 seconds.

 

[LNahid2000]

They are all barely faster than walking in central area.
But one can't complain because obviously millions of handicapped, really pregnant and 88 years olds need them to stop every 90 seconds.

Not necessarily. Today I rode the 501 Queen from Roncesvalles to Yonge and the driver was amazing! He made it to Yonge in 15 minutes...I was impressed.

 

[nfitz]

They are all barely faster than walking in central area.
But one can't complain because obviously millions of handicapped, really pregnant and 88 years olds need them to stop every 90 seconds.

This post once again demonstrates your ignorance with the downtown.

Sure, there's a couple of points at a few times a day, where for a few stops, one might be able to outwalk a streetcar, but they are the exception not the rule.

I frequently, just miss streetcars in rush hour, and start walking. It's a very rare day I ever catch up with one.

How can you possibly claim that they are ALL barely faster than walking.

 

[nfitz]

I finally caught a new streetcar, from Sussex, to Dundas.

Some observations:

- it would be quicker to walk from Sussex to Spadina station than wait for the traffic light to change to cross Spadina. I felt like myself and others had been waiting there for a couple of minutes when the new streetcar suddenly came flying out the portal, and we all jaywalked to the crossing. Normally I get on at Harbord, but as I got to Spadina, I saw the car heading north, I figured I had plenty of time to walk north instead of south.

- After all the comments, I was surprised how fast it moved. It seemed to really move around Spadina Circle, and didn't hesitate at intersections. I expect this is mostly a function of the driver. Just like on the old streetcars, you can tell when you have a rookie, who seems slow, and hesitates all the time.

- Door loading seemed to go smoothly. There was a lot of people trying to exit at the rear door - so people knew . In the centre, people just marched in and headed straight for the machine - seemed to know what they were doing. I couldn't really tell what was happening at the front. The platforms themselves seemed a bit small and narrow, with all the people getting off everywhere.

- It felt surprisingly like a small train. I'm looking forward to some longer trips. Sometimes I take the subway from Union to Spadina - I've never really bothered with the streetcar for that trip - but I'll likely make a point of using the streetcar next time.

- according to the TTC employee (a conductor?) helping by the ticket machine, although you show your POP receipt to the operator of the next vehicle, you actually put your validated child (or seniors) ticket in the farebox, and receive a new transfer. That seems a little odd to me. I didn't get a chance to try it out though, as somehow I couldn't find my daughter's validated ticket when it was time to get on the 505 ... though as we'd spent about 20 minutes shopping in Chinatown (found some rambutan for the first time in a while!) I guess it was bit questionable whether I should have used it anyways ... though if you just walk in and shove it in the fare box - how is the operator ever going to know?

 

[ksun]

... though as we'd spent about 20 minutes shopping in Chinatown (found some rambutan for the first time in a while!) I guess it was bit questionable whether I should have used it anyways ... though if you just walk in and shove it in the fare box - how is the operator ever going to know?

You mean you shouldn't use the transfer because you shopped in Chinatown for 20 minutes?

I wouldn't hesitate using after stopping for 2 or 3 hours. Nobody including the streetcar driver/subway inspector ever cares. Actually among thousands of transfers flashed in the face of the driver, I wonder what percentage are actually strictly valid (no stopping over whatsoever) according to TTC policy. I used to use transfer from Queen or Dundas subway station to get on the 501/505 for years (because I didn't know I was supposed to use the transfer from my first station) and never a single time did the driver question me. They saw a transfer of the right colour and that's good enough for them. Seldom anyone actually checks the words or punched holes and determine whether it is a reasonable transfer.

It is a heavily flawed system and people use it to save some money. It would be stupid and unreasonable to ask for another $3 just because one bought a few apples at the corner store before transferring to the next streetcar.

 

[nfitz]

You mean you shouldn't use the transfer because you shopped in Chinatown for 20 minutes?

No you shouldn't. It's a direct violation of the transfer rules. I'd have looked harder if it wasn't only for a 65-cent children's ticket though.

I wouldn't hesitate using after stopping for 2 or 3 hours.

2-3 hours? For some reason I'm not surprised ...

Nobody including the streetcar driver/subway inspector ever cares.

For 10-20 minutes - probably not. For 2-3 hours? I've seen drivers toss passengers for a lot less. I've seen drivers be difficult for just going in and grabbing a coffee (though never seen one actually refuse someone for just that).

Actually among thousands of transfers flashed in the face of the driver, I wonder what percentage are actually strictly valid (no stopping over whatsoever) according to TTC policy.

I suspect a few people grab something at the intersection point. But I suspect only a very small percentage of riders are unethical enough to be using a transfer from hours earlier.

It would be stupid and unreasonable to ask for another $3 just because one bought a few apples at the corner store before transferring to the next streetcar.

At the corner, sure. But after you walk a couple of blocks, check out a couple of stores, and walk back again, it's getting borderline. And 2-3 hours later I think a very clear line has been crossed.

 

[TOareaFan]

You mean you shouldn't use the transfer because you shopped in Chinatown for 20 minutes?

I wouldn't hesitate using after stopping for 2 or 3 hours.

I am guessing that you two have differing levels of respect for rules....and since one of you is currently raising a child, I am glad the differences are in the order they are

 

[ksun]

I am guessing that you two have differing levels of respect for rules....and since one of you is currently raising a child, I am glad the differences are in the order they are

It is the internet. We can claim to be whoever we pretend to be

My point was our system is not designed to achieve its purported goal. You simply can't expect people, or even the majority of people to respect the rules when the rules themselves are either outright ridiculous (a new fare if you bought a cup of coffee. What about making a phonecall or talking to someone for 30 seconds you bump into? Where is the line?) or impossible to implement (staff simply won't make reasonable efforts to check because there is absolutely no incentive for them to). I have argued many times the fare gates should not rely on human visual detection for the validity of fare, because it doesn't work. All tickets, passes and transfers should be machine readable and must go through the machine (instead of showing it to the busy driver/collector). All transit fare systems are probably somewhat flawed, but I have never seen one as flawed as the TTC, with ridiculous rules and so many of loopholes (or policies completely impossible to be enforced). One can preach about morals all she wants, but it is the impossible system that is to blame.

 

[nfitz]

... but it is the impossible system that is to blame.

There is certainly systemic issues - which will hopefully start to disappear with the 2-hour fair.

But while you might not expect that the majority of people to respect the rules - I think that the majority of people do respect the rules. No one is talking about 30 seconds here, or making a phonecall. You said you wouldn't hesitate to re-use a transfer after 2 to 3 hours. Some wouldn't hesitate about stealing a loaf of bread from a store. Both are wrong, and one can make excuses to justify either.

 

[robmausser]

They are all barely faster than walking in central area.
But one can't complain because obviously millions of handicapped, really pregnant and 88 years olds need them to stop every 90 seconds.

The TTC is most likley going to get the 80 or so stops they want to remove from the system through council and approved.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra...s_to_eliminate_dozens_of_streetcar_stops.html

So this issue is already being taken care of.

Next on the agenda is transit signal priority and streetcar-only lanes like on King during rush hour.

The problem isnt the streetcars, its the system they are forced to run in.

 

[TOareaFan]

There is certainly systemic issues - which will hopefully start to disappear with the 2-hour fair.

But while you might not expect that the majority of people to respect the rules - I think that the majority of people do respect the rules. No one is talking about 30 seconds here, or making a phonecall. You said you wouldn't hesitate to re-use a transfer after 2 to 3 hours. Some wouldn't hesitate about stealing a loaf of bread from a store. Both are wrong, and one can make excuses to justify either.

Exactly

 

[lead82]

The TTC is most likley going to get the 80 or so stops they want to remove from the system through council and approved.

http://www.thestar.com/news/gta/tra...s_to_eliminate_dozens_of_streetcar_stops.html

So this issue is already being taken care of.

Next on the agenda is transit signal priority and streetcar-only lanes like on King during rush hour.

The problem isnt the streetcars, its the system they are forced to run in.

It's a baby step. The TTC should have been more ambitious and removed about 1/3 of the stops on the downtown streetcars. Especially on those with a ROW to show how fast it can be. On Spadina they should remove most if not all the mid-block stops like Sussex, Augusta, etc. it would make the trip faster. The length of the new tram and all door loading reduces the walk anyway.

In fact, the TTC should convert Spadina, Queens Quay and St, Clair into LRT routes with wider spacing and faster travel time. It would be really cheap to do and would demonstrate that trams are a great alternative form of rapid transit that is much cheaper than a subway.