nfitz
Superstar
Though the announcement shouldn't be using two different pronunciations in the same sentence! It's a glitch.
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jamincan
Active Member
The pronunciation of Spadina apparently used to be a class-marker with Spadeena more common amongst the upper classes and Spadina amongst the lower.
adHominem
Senior Member
Fancy new streetcars, putting on airs.
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Either Espadinong or Ishpadinaa was the original Ojibway pronunciation. I'm not sure which one was came first. They got bastardized into a "Spadeenah" pronunciation when Spadina House was opened, located near Casa Loma, in 1818. A linguistic divide between affluent residents on Spadina north of Bloor and poorer immigrants south of Bloor is likely what gave birth to todays "incorrect" "Spa-dinah" pronunciation.
I'm hoping we'll eventually revert back to Ishpadinaa.
Someone taught me the history of Spadina's pronunciation on Monday and I'm amazed that I'm getting to use this knowledge only 4 days later
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W. K. Lis
Superstar
Now, if only they revert to the original spelling of "Bloor", which is "Bloore"! (With the "e" at the end.)
Or, at least, a return of Bloore Brewery?
Or, at least, a return of Bloore Brewery?
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
Whenever I read those old English words with "e" at the end I always emphasize the last e. So "Bloore" is pronounced "BlooreeEEE" and "shoppe" is pronounced "shopeeEEE". I know that this is probably wrong, but I doubt I'll ever kill the habit
DSC
Superstar
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If you ever go to one of the more historic towns in England (think York) your travelling companions are likely to get rather tired of you! :->Whenever I read those old English words with "e" at the end I always emphasize the last e. So "Bloore" is pronounced "BlooreeEEE" and "shoppe" is pronounced "shopeeEEE". I know that this is probably wrong, but I doubt I'll ever kill the habit
johntauren
Active Member
Finally got to ride a new streetcar this morning.
They are very nice, and oh so long.
I don't like the sound when it crosses other tracks at intersections, like at College. It doesn't sound good.
They are very nice, and oh so long.
I don't like the sound when it crosses other tracks at intersections, like at College. It doesn't sound good.
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Duck
Guest
Hmm, I'm pretty sure it's not a glitch, just an oversight in how the recordings were likely created. Some of the elements of the anouncements are recorded as words or sentences by a woman, and others are generated autonomously based on a data file, like street names, which could change over time or where some flexibility is needed.
I would imagine it went something like this:
"Let's record the names of all the route names for the beginning portion of the message." - So the lady says "510 Spadina," and that's the recording.
The announcement in question has both the recorded "Spadina" by the lady, and also the computer-generated "Spadeena" from the data file.
Imagine how cumbersome it would be to program around one particular instance like this? "Okay, so all the stops have to use the data file.. except Spadina." Not likely - I imagine they'll just fiddle around with the spelling until it sounds right. Anyone who's played around with a Text-to-Speech editor knows what I mean. No TTS program can pronounce "Iain" - I have to put "E N", for example.
-Iain
the lemur
Senior Member
Whenever I read those old English words with "e" at the end I always emphasize the last e. So "Bloore" is pronounced "BlooreeEEE" and "shoppe" is pronounced "shopeeEEE". I know that this is probably wrong, but I doubt I'll ever kill the habit
I sometimes do that (internally) but it's more like 'shop-uh'.
Johnny Au
Senior Member
Me, words such as "shoppe" is pronounced as "shop." Why? There is a difference between Old English (which looks more like Dutch or German) and Early Modern English (which is Shakespearean English) and "shoppe" is a modern English word made to look as if it were an Early Modern English word. By the way, "Ye" as in "Ye Olde Shoppe" is actually "The", since the "Y" in "Ye" is actually a misreading of the Old English/Middle English letter "Thorn", which represents the "th" sound.
the lemur
Senior Member
Except that in Middle English the word was shoppe, which suggests it was still a two-syllable word just as it was in Old English (sceoppa or scoppa), ultimately from a Germanic root meaning a stall or shed (compare the 'shop' in 'workshop').
In the UK there is a tendency to take the word 'fair' (as in an event or gathering) and give it a pseudo-archaic spelling (see also Renaissance Faire in North America, I guess) - not 'feire' as it might have been in the Middle Ages, but the entirely made-up 'fayre', also applied, just as erroneously, to 'fare' as in food.
To get sort of back on topic, 'tram' goes all the way back to the era of carts and has to do with beams or shafts and also carts used in mining.
W. K. Lis
Superstar
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nfitz
Superstar
I hadn't realised that TTC had finally put that presentation up.
Hmm, interesting that they report the 501 as 52,000 a day - the most recent stats from 2012 report only only 43,500. The other numbers match - I wonder what the discrepency was.