TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[ehlow]

What exactly is stoppunng FWLRT & SELRT from having trains of more than 2 LRVs in length? The 2 LRV limit sounds very arbitrary to me.

The stops have 60m long platforms/islands (one car is 30m same as the new streetcar). I'm guessing extending it isn't extremely expensive though (compared to extending an underground or elevated station), but they are designed for 60m trains. I really doubt any more will be needed anyways.

 

[salsa]

AoD: why did you even bother asking for evidence? You know he doesn't have any

Why is anyone even trying to reason with him for that matter?

 

[Johnny Au]

I meant to say that Olivia Chow uses the term "underground rail" not "below-ground rail." My bad.

 

[hawc]

I meant to say that Olivia Chow uses the term "underground rail" not "below-ground rail." My bad.

Olivia Chow is a moron.

 

[P23]

I meant to say that Olivia Chow uses the term "underground rail" not "below-ground rail." My bad.

It's still nonsensical, since significant portions of the subway network run above ground and there are even streetcar lines that dip underground for a small distance.

All this debate over what to call things, and this includes the "downtown relief line", is so banal. Just call it "grade-separated" and "non-separated" (although maybe something that sounds a little more catchy) since this is the only absolute distinction and the major influence on speed, which is what most riders are concerned about. Then we can return to arguing about more important things like how much we hate spandrel.

 

[AlvinofDiaspar]

Olivia Chow is a moron.

Better that than a lying drug addicted infant that one voted for I suppose.

P23:

Let's not forget this whole posturing was started by his worship in the first place - who equated underground to good.

AoD

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

.

There are other factors to consider as well. What is the average delay due to traffic light? How far apart are the traffic lights (how many?). What percentage of time does it give the red light to the street the transit vehicle is on?

For example, on Sheppard between Pharmacy and Warden, there is 800m of street without any traffic signal. Other parts average about 400m per intersection.

On St Clair, the traffic lights are every 200m, sometimes even down to 100m. Which do you think would be faster for any surface vehicle?

When you say left turning cars, there are different scenarios. A King streetcar could wait the entire green cycle waiting for the left turning vehicle in front of it. A Spadina streetcar will wait maximum the left turn signal phase, it isn't directly behind the left-turning vehicle.

At one time not too long ago, King St. East between Parliament and Queen had no traffic signals and streetcars used to make very good time through there as traffic wasn't very heavy and left-turning cars were not an issue. Now with increased density, new traffic signals, more people using the stops and left-turning cars, the service along there will probably be considerably slower than it was a few years ago - it is a absolutely a combination of many factors. That being siad, the lack of signal priority where ROWs exist should be a relatively easy fix, however the City Transportation dept. resists switching it on as Steve Munro has pointed out. This should be a question for any city politician who says better transit is their priority. Get on the bureaucrats to turn on the signal priority and make the streetcar lines run faster.

 

[smallspy]

why can't we simply make 510 and 512 faster (by removing some stops) so that they can realize their full potential and function like LRTs? People have such negative impression of them precisely because they operate in the slowest and less efficient way. For example, Nassau stop is 220 meters from College st. NB Richmond stop is 80 m from Queen stop. Seriously, a stop at King, Richmond and Queen, when King and Queen are hardly 400 meters apart?

Can't blame people.

What makes you think that they need to be faster?

The daily ridership of the Spadina car is 55K. The St. Clair car carries over 32K per day. While some more people may take it if you remove stops and make it faster, how many other people will stop taking it because they now have to walk quite a bit further because it is less convenient to get to their new stop? How much time will have to be added at stops because there are more people at each one?

Speed isn't a zero-sum game.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

 

[nfitz]

Olivia Chow is a moron.

Seems to above average intellect to me, unlike the wife-beating racist.

Are you saying this because she has an accent?

And what does this have to do with new streetcars?

 

[ehlow]

It's still nonsensical, since significant portions of the subway network run above ground and there are even streetcar lines that dip underground for a small distance.

All this debate over what to call things, and this includes the "downtown relief line", is so banal. Just call it "grade-separated" and "non-separated" (although maybe something that sounds a little more catchy) since this is the only absolute distinction and the major influence on speed, which is what most riders are concerned about. Then we can return to arguing about more important things like how much we hate spandrel.

I doubt the average person knows what "grade separated" means.

Also if you listen to Ford or many other subway-advocates in the city (many on council), they are concerned about "waiting in the cold" and therefore something grade separated like SRT is still not good enough for them.

 

[ehlow]

Apparently the new streetcars can be retrofitted to be multi-unit capable. Can you imagine a 2 or 3 car train running through the streets?

http://stevemunro.ca/?p=10178#comments

Steve: 250 is a crush load number, and for planning purposes, the TTC will design service on an average peak load of about 160. I think that may be generous, but better to find out what a realistic number is before aiming too high and running too little service. I believe they are MU capable but don’t know what the retrofit would involve. The Transit City cars definitely will run in trains.

 

[mrxbombastic]

Apparently the new streetcars can be retrofitted to be multi-unit capable. Can you imagine a 2 or 3 car train running through the streets?

I had a chance to speak with the one of the main project officials and asked this very question. According to him the main issue would be replacing the rear section with a drivers cab and updating the software and some mechanics to allow the vehicles to run in sync when attached together. However he pretty much said that this would almost never happen simply due to the fact that running more cars more frequently would be a better option and running 60m vehicles would be extremely difficult in mix traffic operations for both operators and motorists.

 

[ksun]

What makes you think that they need to be faster?

The daily ridership of the Spadina car is 55K. The St. Clair car carries over 32K per day. While some more people may take it if you remove stops and make it faster, how many other people will stop taking it because they now have to walk quite a bit further because it is less convenient to get to their new stop? How much time will have to be added at stops because there are more people at each one?

Speed isn't a zero-sum game.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.

You mean people will stop take transit because they need to walk 200 meters/less than 2 minutes to the nearest stop. You mean someone who usually get off at Kensington Market will stop taking 510 and choose to drive and park for $10 an hour because they will need to get off at College st? I find it hard to believe.

Those who prefer driving will drive and those who take transit will still ride the TTC. 2 minutes additional walk is not gonna make such a big difference.

Additionally, if your theory is correct, they will be additional riders to board the 512 because now it stops less frequently and runs faster, won't there?

 

[JayBeeGooner]

I spotted 4402 testing on Dundas.

 

[smallspy]

You mean people will stop take transit because they need to walk 200 meters/less than 2 minutes to the nearest stop. You mean someone who usually get off at Kensington Market will stop taking 510 and choose to drive and park for $10 an hour because they will need to get off at College st? I find it hard to believe.

I know lots of people who, if the weather is shite, won't walk more than 2 or 3 minutes from their vehicle or a shelter, so yeah, that would prevent them from making their trip if it is a discretionary trip.

Those who prefer driving will drive and those who take transit will still ride the TTC. 2 minutes additional walk is not gonna make such a big difference.

Additionally, if your theory is correct, they will be additional riders to board the 512 because now it stops less frequently and runs faster, won't there?

I'm not sure how you can figure that when I haven't laid out a theory. My point was that the ridership of any given route is just as likely to drop as it is to increase if you remove the stops.

Conversely, I could argue that your theory would hold that every route would need but two stops - 1 at either end, and everyone would have to get to those two points. But that doesn't work either.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.