TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

[rbt]

...In theory that might be bad news for Millhaven but it is may be difficult to walk away from the Edmonton and Eglinton contracts...

Both of those contracts will be completed before Alstom knows what they want to do. It'll be 1 year to financial close (minimum) for EU, USA, Canada, etc. to approve the purchase, and a couple years after that before they work out where all the excess capacity is. Excess capacity isn't always obvious to spot as an idle plant might be required to obtain a future sale, and another operating full out may not have any side benefits at all.

Existing contracts will largely be finished where they are simply because they'll be nearly done before Alstom has a good handle on what they have.

 

[drum118]

I just posted this in the Ontario Line thread that was sent to me and could have an effect what stay open or close plant wise down the road. Since Alstom is setting up a plant in Brampton that is about 3 hour drive away from Millhaven that was just expanded and only built in the 70's compare to Thunder Bay in the 30's, Millhaven has a better chance staying open than TB unless Ford wants to throw away money to keep TB open..

Both Edmonton and Metrolinx orders will be completed this year end or early 2021. TB only has 4471 & 78 Flexity to be ship to TTC as well 4401 that will be done around June and X coaches for GO that will be completed sometime this year. That its for both plants.

Is TTC welling to ship more cars to BBD Quebec plant for weld fixing considering it taking close to a year to be done compare to the 19 week turn around?? TTC is still miss 3 cars at this time.

4406 arrived Dec 19, 2019 and still in the service Bay
4405 arrived February 3, 2020 and was out all day Thursday as well all night doing its 3rd testing. In the service bay at this time.
4601 has been sitting on the yard service track for close to 2 weeks after arriving January 19, 2020 and no idea why.

If TTC plans to put Flexity's back on 505 at the end of March, going to be short cars as there is a long list of MIA cars already in service with some being out of service from 3-12 months that buses will still be needed to help various routes.

I have been told by a source close to a TransLink manager that Alstom will cease production of the Movia Automatic Light Metro, leaving Vancouver, as the only customer, without a supplier for the proprietary Linear Induction Motor powered railway.

This has caused some sleepless nights for execs because the cars may have to be built from scratch if another company bids on supplying the cars. This means the costs will increase for an already expensive vehicle.

As one UK engineer told me a few years back; "You just don't slap a pair of LIM's on a bogie!"

Evidently TransLink senior managers have been in discussion with Alstom over this issue and the replies have not been reassuring.

I do not think provincial or local politico's are aware of the problem and for the past few years they have been denying that MALM is indeed at proprietary railway. According to the mayor's of Surrey and Vancouver, almost everyone operates them!

Huh?

Already, indications are that the cost of the the $4.6 billion build (12.8 km or 8 miles) for the Expo and Millennium Lines is rising due to increase cost of cement and special steel.

Unfortunately for the public that anarchy of the many local, provincial and national blockades over an approved gas pipeline has overshadowed any news of this here.

 

[lenaitch]

I just posted this in the Ontario Line thread that was sent to me and could have an effect what stay open or close plant wise down the road. Since Alstom is setting up a plant in Brampton that is about 3 hour drive away from Millhaven that was just expanded and only built in the 70's compare to Thunder Bay in the 30's, Millhaven has a better chance staying open than TB unless Ford wants to throw away money to keep TB open..

Or Ottawa - FedNor and that type of thing. The Kingston area is probably in better economic shape than the N/W.

 

[drum118]

Anyone know what up with 4601 that been sitting on the service track in the yard the last 2 weeks considering it arrived January 21, 2019? It should be in service now.

4406 is not tracking anymore for the last day or so and was saying last seen 2 days ago when it was tracking. Arrived December 19, 2019.

4405 was last seen a day ago after it arrived February 3, 2020 and has spent most of its time in the service bay.

I am assuming 4407 is still sitting in Montreal due rail closure.

That was a nice PR Photo of 4471 sitting in TB plant that was to be ship to TTC since no reports that it been ship or off loaded so far.

How many buses will be use in place of streetcars per the CEO Report??

As part of these activities, Bombardier has commenced the Major Repair Program (MRP) where up to seven streetcars are in the queue at its plant in La Pocatière, Quebec at any given time for re-weld. With the MRP, warranty work and soon-tocommence installation of the VISION system on the new fleet, the TTC has been maintaining a spare ratio of 25 per cent. Staff expect the maintenance spare ratio to reduce as these programs are addressed.

The monthly contractual MDBF for the LFLRV fleet in December was 50,700 kilometres. This is an increase of 8,810 kilometres compared to last month and an increase of 36,054 kilometres when compared to the same time last year. The 12-month average contractual MDBF was 24,718 kilometres. The contractual target of 35,000 kilometres MDBF must be met within one year of commissioning of the 204th vehicle. The monthly operational MDBF for the LFLRV fleet in December was 13,749 kilometres. This is an increase of 1,504 kilometres from previous period.

 

[Admiral Beez]

According to the report, those 60 additional streetcars are needed immediately. Which means Bombardier.

I imagine Altstrom won’t honour the original low ball pricing from Bombardier. There’s only two players making LRTs in North America; Alstrom and Siemens, and neither will be pushed into making below market offers.

Before Bombardier’s acquisition the TTC estimated 60 additional vehicles would cost of $361 million. I expect now this cost will be closer to $700 million.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

Anyone know what up with 4601 that been sitting on the service track in the yard the last 2 weeks considering it arrived January 21, 2019? It should be in service now.

4406 is not tracking anymore for the last day or so and was saying last seen 2 days ago when it was tracking. Arrived December 19, 2019.

4405 was last seen a day ago after it arrived February 3, 2020 and has spent most of its time in the service bay.

I am assuming 4407 is still sitting in Montreal due rail closure.

That was a nice PR Photo of 4471 sitting in TB plant that was to be ship to TTC since no reports that it been ship or off loaded so far.

How many buses will be use in place of streetcars per the CEO Report??

4601 likely had some sort of failure. It's on a track with cars that are MIA. As for 4471/4478, they better hurry because Dundas is supposed to be with cars come March 29th

 

[EastYorkTTCFan]

I am assuming 4407 is still sitting in Montreal due rail closure.

That was a nice PR Photo of 4471 sitting in TB plant that was to be ship to TTC since no reports that it been ship or off loaded so far.

Both of them could be being prepared to be shipped by road much like one was when there was a posable rail strike and also how the first couple were delivered to Toronto before the unloading spur was in place.

 

[drum118]

Both of them could be being prepared to be shipped by road much like one was when there was a posable rail strike and also how the first couple were delivered to Toronto before the unloading spur was in place.

Why ship by truck when CP is doing the shipping like the other cars and don't know of any stoppage for them from TB??

4601 likely had some sort of failure. It's on a track with cars that are MIA. As for 4471/4478, they better hurry because Dundas is supposed to be with cars come March 29th

THE CEO is calling for 25% spare ratio and that leaves about 150 cars for service and here come the buses. At the rate cars from Quebec are arriving and have yet to reenter service, expect the same issue as the Quebec cars, but not as bad for the cars from TB.

I see the 35,000 failure rate is now one year from delivery of car 4603, not the 60th cars as noted from day one.

 

[Admiral Beez]

There’s only two players making LRTs in North America; Alstrom and Siemens,

CAF and Kinki Sharyo are also somewhat relevant.

Interesting, thanks. I was not aware that they produce/assemble LRTs in North America. Where, for what markets?

EDIT - I see assembly near Seattle, very cool. Though I suppose the plants located in Canada would get some favouritism.

 

[max]

Anyone know what up with 4601 that been sitting on the service track in the yard the last 2 weeks considering it arrived January 21, 2019? It should be in service now.

According to the CEO 's Report it will happen this week:

With the exception of one streetcar, which was returned for weld repairs before it was fully commissioned, all streetcars ordered are scheduled to be commissioned for revenue service this month.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Interesting, thanks. I was not aware that they produce/assemble LRTs in North America. Where, for what markets?

EDIT - I see assembly near Seattle, very cool. Though I suppose the plants located in Canada would get some favouritism.

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rail_transit_systems_in_the_United_States

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_rail_in_North_America

 

[drum118]

According to the CEO 's Report it will happen this week:

We will see since it hasn't move in over 2 weeks from the yard service track. Normally its 11-17 days from arrival to service with the odd car being up to 30 days. 4601 arrived Jan 21 and that more than 30 days so far.

4406 is tracking again after being MIA for a week in the service bay. Maybe 4405 & 4405 may have VISION installed in them to go along with the 4 cars that have it now

Boston, Kansas City, Houston, Seattle, Cincinnati and Maryland have CAF cars. .Kansas City & Cincinnati cars are 66', Boston is 74', Houston 100', Seattle 66'?, and Maryland are 136'

 

[AlbertHWagstaff]

4601 is tracking on 512 this morning.

 

[thettctransitfanatic]

4601 is tracking on 512 this morning.

With 4601 now in service, just 4405, 4406, the rest of the welding cars and 4401 need to reenter/enter service. Safe to say we've reached the end of cars entering service for the first time aside from 4401, as the rest will all be reentering after their welding repairs

 

[drum118]

Odd that it in service now considering it was still on the service track last night. Could been there because of paperwork, but regardless of the issue, its in service 35 days after arrival. .

Now to see how long 4405 & 4406 take to reenter service as well the arrival of 4404, 4407 & 4408. Then, what 7 cars will next to be ship to Quebec for welds repair.

Then there is 4471 & 4478 still to be ship from TB that will be tested before reentering service.

Once 4401 arrives and enter service, it will close the book for cars entering service until the next batch of NEW cars are order and ship which could be 2025+.

I believe the list of MIA cars is supposed to be down to 4 cars from 20+ that are in service. That helps the spare ratio.