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TTC: Flexity Streetcars Testing & Delivery (Bombardier)

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Streetcars Of Future Seen At Cne
Bigger, Sleeker; TTC Hopes Next Generation Of Cars On Road In 2010

Natalie Alcoba
National Post

Tuesday, August 21, 2007

A glimpse into the possible future of streetcar transit in this city can be seen at the Canadian National Exhibition as the Toronto Transit Commission continues its drive to replace its fleet of ageing vehicles.

The $1.4-billion contract to replace all of the TTC's 248 cars with 204 longer, greater capacity vehicles is said to be North America's largest light rail deal, and will set the stage for Toronto Transit City, an ambitious proposal to add 120 kilometres of streetcar routes by 2021.

The "TTC Streetcars of Tomorrow" exhibit at the CNE is one way to familiarize Torontonians with the next generation of streetcars, which are slated to be on the road by 2010.

There is barely a need to "watch your step" on Siemens Canada Ltd.'s Combino Plus model, a sleek three-section train that boasts a "100% low floor" and a roomy interior. The company introduced the vehicle to the public last week with wraparound ads in commuter papers.

"Technology has come a long way. They've done their job. They've been around for 30 or 40 years but there are some advantages to new technology, and that's something people should be able to get a sense of," said David Slack, director of communications and public relations at Montreal-based Bombardier Transportation, which is showcasing an LRV model at the CNE. The car on display, which is operating in Minneapolis, is a little bigger than the version the company may propose for Toronto.

Seven companies initially expressed interest in the lucrative TTC undertaking this year, but three eventually backed out, said Stephen Lam, the commission's superintendant of streetcar engineering who is steering the mammoth project. Those were Kinki-Sharyo, a Japanese company that provides light rail vehicles to San Jose; Mytram, a small Toronto firm with strong ties to a Ukrainian company; and AnsaldoBreda, the Italian company behind the beleaguered Boston models that had all sorts of derailment problems.

That leaves four strong contenders -- Siemens, Bombardier, Czech-based Skoda and Vossloh-Kiepe, a German company -- which are poring over a 600-page draft speculation document just released by the TTC that details the engineering peculiarities of the Toronto system and outlines what the city needs from its LRVs.

"We've got a very unique environment compared with typical light rail operations, even for streetcar operations, because our system is very mature and very old and it goes around in very tight areas and neighbourhoods," Mr. Lam explained yesterday.

Spots such as the McCaul Street loop downtown and Neville Park loop on Queen Street East are typically in the 40-to 45-foot radius curve range, he said, significantly more narrow than the 80-foot radius curve that LRVs are used to wrapping around.

Also, the city has relatively steep grades, which may be a challenge for typical LRVs.

"It is possible to do, just at a cost, I suppose," Mr. Lam said of the required modifications. "But our project is large enough now that they are showing interest. If you had a 20-or 30-vehicle order, people would say the front-end cost is not enough to warrant it."

He said the commission plans to release its "request for proposals" this fall and close the competition by February. The contract could be awarded by the spring.
 
Just saw the Siemens video, very nice. Quick question though - will the pantograph that they show in the mock-up work on TTC's current wiring, or will the trams need to be fitted with pole?
 
From what I have heard, the long term plan is to switch to all-pantograph operation. It MAY even be possible that trolley poles and pantograph are compatible.
 
Pantos don't dewire and support higher-speed operation, but to get the highest speed possible you have install the overhead in a zig-zag patter to avoid wearing a single groove in the panto.

So you must weigh (slightly) more reliable operation vs (eventual) replacement of the system.
 
Pantos don't dewire

No, instead they catch the wire and allow the driver to tear down a mile of overhead before realizing they're wrecking up the place.

Incidentally, Boston ran a mixed system with both pantographs and trolly poles for a long time on the same overhead. Tricky to do but it is possible.
 
Siemens has gone all-out to pitch its LRT. It is on display at the Ex (beside Bombardier's half-mock of the Flexity with Minneapolis colours). Anyone else notice the bombardment ads in today's Metro?

http://www.combinoplus.ca/


wow! good things come from siemens (pun)

p.s, those aren't street cars, those are street trains!

can't wait to ride the rails!
 
Exactly...like the stop at Victoria and King, a stone's throw from the Yonge Subway stop and Church St!

the point of the Victoria/King stop is if there are a number of streetcars bunching at the intersection, the operator and passengers have the option of deboarding at Victoria and walking to the subway station. WHen I used to take the King SC daily, I'd typically get off at Victoria instead of waiting for the streetcar ahead of mine to deboard and board.
 
I was disapointed to see that Alstom is not bidding--my totally non-technical opinion is that their trams are some of the sexiest. Realistically, only Siemens and Bombardier have a chance, I suspect, and I hope there is some real competition between them. This is a HUGE order, and we should really make them chase it. However if federal funding is necessary I think we all know which one's going to win, especially if Stephan Dion becomes PM anytime soon.

I noticed the Post piece referred to an order for 204 vehicles, which would presumably be only a first instalment since Transit City will require double that at least.

Are the ALRVs, being newer, going to be kept longer than the CLRVs?
 
I noticed the Post piece referred to an order for 204 vehicles, which would presumably be only a first instalment since Transit City will require double that at least.

the 204 would be to replace the current streetcars. if/when the transit city lines are built, there would be an additional 260 streetcars needed.
 
Note that there are more than 204 cars in the fleet. There are 196 CLRVs, which are almost 30 years old, and 52 ARLVs, which are about 20 years old.

So the fleet will get smaller, with longer headways. (It might work on Spadina, or during rush hours, but won't be fun on many routes off-peak, especially with short-turns!).
 
Those opinions are hilarious:
Siemens is oh-so Euro-cool, somehow it's carrying less passengers means they'll be more comfortable vs. Bombardier's crush load, and, in a truly bizarre case of Euro-misinformation, they suggest that if Siemens can handle Europe's tight turns, our will be a cintch (despite the fact that Toronto's streetcar tracks have some of the tightest turning radii in the business).
They wax poetic about Siemens, praising it in almost every category whist simultaneously trashing the Felicity... and then, in a typical turn, give the nod to Bombardier because it pledges to support unionized jobs in northern Ontario.
Why even bother comparing the two in the first place?
 
They also said that the Siemens had a huge amount of standing room over the Bombardier which I finded the opposite. Those curves seats on the Siemens made standing room hard to come by and pretty much impossible to walk through there with people sitting there.
 
I saw the mock-ups at the CNE on the weekend, and I was very disappointed in both of them. The Bombardier definitly has, or at least appears to have, more standing room.

Seimens - I didnt like that several of the seats getso close to each other that the pathway between them is no more than 2 feet wide. Good luck getting carts, strollers or luggage to your seat. I didnt like that there was a waste of seating space. It looks like there will be very few seats with their arrangement

Bombardier - looked cheap inside. Again, seating plan didnt look like there were too many seats, but at least there appeared to be much mor room for standing.

Both - I didnt like that neither one had a spot for payment. I asked reps from both, and both said that there would be no cash fare deposit. Both said that the TTC would have to change to an honour system whereby passengers would pre-purchase tickets and entre on the honour system. Occasionally a supervisor would be on board checking for valid tickets. To do this, the TTC would have to install ticket booths at each and every stop along all streetcar lines. They would also have to hire more workers to check tickets. With the TTC being so cash strapped, why would they want a larger operating budget? Why would the TTC want to install all those ticket booths across the city (thousands of them)??? Seems to me it would be easier to tell bombardier and Seimens to incorporate the current pay-on-the-street-car system into their designs. With an honour system, I am very confident that ticket sales will drop quite a bit.
 

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