TTC: Electric and alternative fuel buses

[yurt2022]

How much is the operating cost for deadheading buses to/from the start of the route vs the cost installing charging stations??? There are a few systems in the US that have charging stations on routes and at bus terminal. Europe has far more than the US with the main focus of keeping buses on routes up to 24 hours and in some cases longer. Most systems were uses bus terminals as charging station and rode a few routes that had charging stations at each end. Some systems use both plug-ins and overhead charging.

You class ebuses as crap, yet rest of the world seam to have no issues to the point a number of systems are fully ebuses now with a fair number taking place in 2025 and the bulk by 2030. Paris will be the last one since they need 6,000 buses to be fully ebuses.

New Flyer has discontinue hybrids for their 60's at this time due to lack of engines to meet current standards.

There are no bus systems in America that operate as frequently or handle as many people as the TTC (yes even Chicago and NYC), so that’s comparing apples to oranges.

As for Europe, I can’t speak on that as I’m not familiar with their systems.

 

[nfitz]

There are no bus systems in America that operate as frequently or handle as many people as the TTC (yes even Chicago and NYC), so that’s comparing apples to oranges.

NYC?

That's not correct. Bus ridership is much higher there. If you want apples to apples, look at the regular APTA reporting at https://www.apta.com/research-technical-resources/transit-statistics/ridership-report/

For 2024 Q3 it shows that Toronto is at 1,179,700 average weekday ridership for buses (another 76,200 at GO), while NYC is at 1,949,700 plus 451,000 for the separately managed "MTA Bus Company" that provides service in Queens, Brooklyn, and the Bronx. And there post-Covid recovery is significantly lower than Toronto!

Outside NYC ridership is pathetic though. Looks like LA is number 3, Montreal is 4, and Vancouver (!) is 5, then followed by Chicago with 577,600.

It's a shame that the MiWay and BiWay data isn't available there.

 

[APTA-2048]

First order announced for a new player in the North American transit industry.

Press

www.solarisbus.com

Solaris' first contract in the U.S. market involves the delivery of two 40-foot battery electric buses and two 60-foot articulated buses. The agreement also includes an option for up to 12 additional units. Vehicle deliveries are expected in the second half of 2026.

These buses will be based on an electric-born platform designed specifically for the North American market, compliant with all U.S. regulations, including FMVSS and ADA compliance. This platform will feature the most progressive battery bus technology developed by Solaris in its 15 years of experience in battery buses, including advanced electrical propulsion systems, Solaris’ proprietary battery integration technology and state-of-the-art connectivity features, service proven in the European market.

 

[dowlingm]

First order announced for a new player in the North American transit industry.

Press

www.solarisbus.com

Solaris' first contract in the U.S. market involves the delivery of two 40-foot battery electric buses and two 60-foot articulated buses. The agreement also includes an option for up to 12 additional units. Vehicle deliveries are expected in the second half of 2026.

Wonder how these are getting around Buy America, or are King County simply choosing not to seek any federal funding streams for these. The release not only omits any mention of a U.S. assembly site but in fact explicitly says all Solaris buses are made in Poland.

 

[rbt]

Wonder how these are getting around Buy America, or are King County simply choosing not to seek any federal funding streams for these. The release not only omits any mention of a U.S. assembly site but in fact explicitly says all Solaris buses are made in Poland.

There are waivers from that requirement for small orders (under $1M in materials/parts IIRC) and this is an order for 2 units. The option for 12 additional vehicles seems like it might run into compliance issues though.

 

[drum118]

There are waivers from that requirement for small orders (under $1M in materials/parts IIRC) and this is an order for 2 units. The option for 12 additional vehicles seems like it might run into compliance issues though.

Wavers can be had for small orders, trail base or no waver is required if the city and state is paying for them without funds from the feds. Then there is the need to do Altoona test as well TC if to be use in Canada down the road.

There been talks for some time of European manufacturers wanting to sit up shop in NA and this is the first step to do so. At this point in time, there is only New Flyer and Gillig as main suppliers of buses with Gillig having no interest doing 60' buses as well preferring small orders. under 100 and have supply some systems with more than 100.