TTC: Electric and alternative fuel buses

[W. K. Lis]

I think Winnipeg gets colder than Toronto.

New Flyer Battery-electric buses enter into service with Winnipeg Transit

From link.

Winnipeg Transit is now using up to four New Flyer Xcelsior® battery-electric transit buses in daily service as part of an electric bus demonstration. The project is a collaboration involving the City of Winnipeg, the Province of Manitoba, Manitoba Hydro, New Flyer Industries, Mitsubishi Heavy Industries, Red River College, and Sustainable Development Technology Canada.

The buses will be in daily operation on the route 20 Academy-Watt, a 40 kilometer, two-hour route starting at Winnipeg Richardson International Airport, making its way through the city centre to East Kildonan and returning to the airport. The route was chosen as its length, speeds and loads are typical of many central business district routes in Canada and USA. Winnipeg Airports Authority permitted New Flyer to install a high power charging station at the airport, a project that was completed in October of 2014.

Zero-emission battery-electric propulsion transit buses are expected to significantly reduce greenhouse gas and smog-causing criteria air contaminant emissions. In Manitoba, where the electrical grid is highly renewable (nearly 100 percent of electricity is generated without burning fuel), the use of electric propulsion buses is expected to translate to an estimated reduction of 160 tonnes of greenhouse gas emissions, per bus, per year.

 

[rbt]

I think Winnipeg gets colder than Toronto.

Yeah, Winnipeg bought 4 buses and Montreal 3 using the same federal funding package Toronto used to buy 60 units. Several other Canadian and US cities did too. By combining all these tiny orders, the manufacturers were able to get enough scale to keep the cost down on a run of prototypes.

Absolutely nobody in North America ordered hundreds of them to start replacing their existing gas fleet, though that's obviously the hope of both manufacturers and the transit agencies in the future.

 

[W. K. Lis]

Toronto orders an additional 10 New Flyer battery-electric transit buses

From link.

New Flyer Industries Canada ULC ("New Flyer"), the Canadian subsidiary of NFI Group Inc. ("NFI"), the largest bus manufacturer in North America, today announced an award from the Toronto Transit Commission ("TTC") for an additional ten forty-foot, zero-emission, battery-electric Xcelsior CHARGE™ heavy-duty transit buses.

This award follows on the original TTC order from New Flyer in June 2018 for ten battery-electric Xcelsior CHARGE™ buses, and increases TTC's total order to 20 vehicles. The original contract was TTC's first transit bus order from New Flyer since 1999, and has an additional 20 options remaining. The purchase also includes five ABB direct current (DC) depot chargers that conform to the Society of Automotive Engineer (SAE) J1772 Combined Charging System (CCS Type 1 Connector), allowing the chargers to support other types and makes of electric vehicles operating for the City of Toronto. The chargers will be commissioned by New Flyer Infrastructure Solutions™ and ABB.

TTC is the public transit agency operating bus, subway, streetcar, and paratransit services in Toronto, Ontario. As the third largest transit system in North America, TTC delivers more than 536 million passenger trips each year, and has integrated sustainability into its multi-year plan to reduce greenhouse gases, air pollution, and congestion on Toronto roadways.

The TTC's electric bus program aims to transform mobility in Toronto with a 100% zero-emission bus fleet by 2040, which includes a commitment to purchase only zero-emission buses by 2025. This program will assist TTC and the greater public transit community in developing bus and electrification specifications for future procurements.

"New Flyer is proud to expand its zero-emission partnership with Toronto, with this follow on TTC order," said Chris Stoddart, President, New Flyer.

NFI has over 50 years of experience in manufacturing zero-emission buses (ZEBs), with more electric buses on the road in North America than any other manufacturer. In 2018, New Flyer became the first bus manufacturer in the world to sign on to the Shared Mobility Principles for Livable Cities, joined the Charging Interface Initiative (CharIN) to support industry charging standards for all electric vehicles, became the first licensee outside the Volvo Group to join OppCharge in North America, and celebrated the Canadian Urban Transit Research and Innovation Consortium's (CUTRIC) launch of the Pan-Canadian Electric Bus Demonstration and Integration Trial – the world's first multi-manufacturer interoperability demonstration for fast-charge electric buses – of which New Flyer was a contributing member.

 

[Toronto1834]

Toronto orders an additional 10 New Flyer battery-electric transit buses

From link.

I thought the TTC was going to test the first 30 e-buses before deciding about procurement of the next 30. How does the TTC know they want more New Flyer buses if the first batch hasn't even arrived in Toronto yet?

 

[smallspy]

I thought the TTC was going to test the first 30 e-buses before deciding about procurement of the next 30. How does the TTC know they want more New Flyer buses if the first batch hasn't even arrived in Toronto yet?

See the other threads - the TTC's plan for many months now is to test with 20 of each model of bus, not 10. This is simply making the second batch of 10 buses from NFI "official".

Dan

 

[APTA-2048]

Further to that point, from the July 2018 CEO's report:

At the June 12, 2018 Board meeting, an additional 30 eBuses were approved along with the infrastructure required to begin modification of the rst all-zero-emissions bus garage. This has been communicated to the bus Original Equipment Manufacturers (OEMs), all of whom have been requested to secure production timeslots for Q4 2019 delivery of the additional buses. Vendor performance and bus performance will determine if they receive an order for an additional 10 buses.

 

[amnesiajune]

Where are these buses being tested out?

 

[W. K. Lis]

From link, dated June 12, 2018.

 

[jcam]

In terms of electric buses, Toronto is on par with most major cities. And to be honest, I'm glad Toronto is taking it slow. CNG and hybrid bus technology have matured to become an integral part of major transit systems. This wasn't the case when the TTC first bought both, leaving them less than satisfied.

And in reality, its not that slow. 2019 onwards is all hybrids, and they will stop buying those for eBuses in ~2025. The long timeframe is to roll-over the fleet. Much easier for someone who has a large fleet the same age (or a neglible fleet set to grow) to convert everything much sooner. The life of a bus is around 13 years.

 

[smallspy]

And in reality, its not that slow. 2019 onwards is all hybrids, and they will stop buying those for eBuses in ~2025.

While that is what they would like to do, that is also dependent on a bunch of things, not the least of which is funding.

The long timeframe is to roll-over the fleet. Much easier for someone who has a large fleet the same age (or a neglible fleet set to grow) to convert everything much sooner.

If they wanted to throw a lot of money at the problem, they could order far more buses each year. Take, for instance, the orders for the Nova diesels and hybrids over the past 3 years. The TTC has received almost 800 of them.

The life of a bus is around 13 years.

Historically the TTC has aimed to replace buses after 18 years of use. For the past several years, however, they have tried to lower that to 15 or so.

Dan

 

[jcam]

While that is what they would like to do, that is also dependent on a bunch of things, not the least of which is funding.



If they wanted to throw a lot of money at the problem, they could order far more buses each year. Take, for instance, the orders for the Nova diesels and hybrids over the past 3 years. The TTC has received almost 800 of them.



Historically the TTC has aimed to replace buses after 18 years of use. For the past several years, however, they have tried to lower that to 15 or so.

Dan

They've dropped to 13 years now (closer to industry standard), and the spike was because of PTIF. They would, rightfully, prefer steady-state procurement.

 

[smallspy]

They've dropped to 13 years now (closer to industry standard), and the spike was because of PTIF. They would, rightfully, prefer steady-state procurement.

They haven't dropped the lifespan to 13 years yet. That was part of the same funding request as the consistant year-on-year ordering program that they'd wanted to start.

And the spike was partially due to PTIF, and partially due to the need to replace 482 older Orions due to an MoE order.

Dan

 

[ShonTron]

They haven't dropped the lifespan to 13 years yet. That was part of the same funding request as the consistant year-on-year ordering program that they'd wanted to start.

And the spike was partially due to PTIF, and partially due to the need to replace 482 older Orions due to an MoE order.

Dan

MoE order? What's wrong with the Orions that required that?

 

[smallspy]

MoE order? What's wrong with the Orions that required that?

The MoE decided, upon observation of a particular set of vehicles at varying times, in varying places and operating in varying conditions, that they were producing more pollution than they were supposed to or were certified to. Thus, they told the TTC that they had to get them off the roads. The TTC was originally given until June of last year, but managed to get the deadline extended until the fall.

For the record, these were the Orion 7 buses built from 2002 to 2004, and equipped with a Detroit Diesel engine. The later-build models equipped with Cummins diesels were not subject to the order.

Dan

 

[W. K. Lis]

Meanwhile, in other parts of the world...