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TTC CLRV Streetcars: Where will they go once they are retired?

nfitz said:
I'd think on a very frequent peak-hours route, that AODA rules would be fulfilled by having 50% of the vehicles accessible.

Though I fully expect the CLRVs to be fully retired before 2024 ... and the ALRVs even earlier.
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The last I heard, the system has to be ODA standard 100% by 2018. MTO wanted the system to be done by 2015, but allow the extra 3 years extension due to the various issues.

This meant that TTC still can run the current fleet along with the new fleet as specials to off set over crowding at peak time since they didn't do the 1:1 as I said they should since 2005 for replacement. They can be used for special events as well being used for tours. Still can do what was being done on the 509 during the summer with the PCC on other routes.

If the plan stays in place as plan, ALRV's gone by 2015 with the bulk of CLRV's by 2020 if not all of them. Depending on what TTC plans for the fleet to be retain as historical fleet, they will be retire in name only for daily service and still be on the roll like the Witt and PCC's. To be retire 100% would mean they are on display or scrap for TTC system and not using the system for special events under my books.
 
drum118 said:
I am not the one saying there a lack of space when it comes from Brad and Andy in the first place. Both have being saying for sometime that TTC will be lacking space even with Hillcrest being used.

With my quick talk to both of them before I head off to another meeting at City Hall, it was stated that Hillcrest will have issues and still looking at using CNE to store equipment. They will have to look for another yard after 2021 when the fleet is expanded again.
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Yeah...no. Not even close.

The would be storing the PCCs at Hillcrest if it wasn't for the fact that because they are (or rather were) used so often that the deadheading would be silly. They use the Peter Witt so little that it's fine to store it up there, and the 2 New Looks as well.

For those keeping score, all of the above is stored in the basement of the old Davenport Garage. There is loads of room in there.

Dan
Toronto, Ont.
 
The TTC expects to be able to store 22 of the CLRVs at the sidetrack at the Exhibition (East) Loop, during 2014. The CNE is designated for Temporary/Contigency Storage until Leslie Barn Connection and Facility are complete.
 
drum118 said:
The last I heard, the system has to be ODA standard 100% by 2018. MTO wanted the system to be done by 2015, but allow the extra 3 years extension due to the various issues.
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No. The AODA aims to have Ontario accessible by 2025. There is nothing in the AODA or the Integrated Accessibility Standards Regulation (IASR) that requires the TTC or any other Ontario transit agency to retire all inaccessible vehicles by 2018. It is against the regulation to purchase any new inaccessible vehicles however.
 
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nrb said:
Over half of Prague's tram fleet is 50 year old T3s running alongside brand spanking new trams.
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No, I mean keeping non-revenue generating trams in storage. I've never heard of a transit operator anywhere that kept more than 10 models of a tram that it knew would not ever be used for anything other than special purpose/special event runs.
 
Molybdenum said:
No. The AODA aims to have Ontario accessible by 2025. There is nothing in the AODA or the Integrated Accessibility Standards Regulation (IASR) that requires the TTC or any other Ontario transit agency to retire all inaccessible vehicles by 2018. It is against the regulation to purchase any new inaccessible vehicles however.
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MTO wanted to accelerate the time frame regardless of the 2025 time frame that they mandated all buses to be lowfloor by 2012 or be accessibility. There were a few exception to the rule based on rebuilt.

They wanted the streetcar to be done by 2015, but living with the 2018 time frame now.

They want all transit stations to be done before 2025, but without funding from the government not going to happen. If they want it sooner, show the money to do it.
 
drum118 said:
MTO wanted to accelerate the time frame regardless of the 2025 time frame that they mandated all buses to be lowfloor by 2012 or be accessibility. There were a few exception to the rule based on rebuilt.

They wanted the streetcar to be done by 2015, but living with the 2018 time frame now.

They want all transit stations to be done before 2025, but without funding from the government not going to happen. If they want it sooner, show the money to do it.
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No, again. There was no official mandate that required transit agencies to move to entirely low floor buses, or even to accessible high floor buses, by 2012. That was the last year that you could legally build a transit vehicle that didn't comply with the AODA standards. Having said that, provincial funding for new buses has been contingent on making accessible bus purchases since at least 2003. Also, if you review the MTO's 2012-13 accessibility plan, you will see that they were only aiming for 96% accessible buses province-wide at year end 2012.

Technically even today there is no official requirement for transit stations to be accessible by 2025. The AODA requires the government to enact accessibility standards to make Ontario accessible for people with disabilities by Jan 1, 2025, but the Province has yet to enact anything specific to transit stations. Agreed that they need to provide the funding if they want this to happen on time.
 
Molybdenum said:
No, again. There was no official mandate that required transit agencies to move to entirely low floor buses, or even to accessible high floor buses, by 2012. That was the last year that you could legally build a transit vehicle that didn't comply with the AODA standards. Having said that, provincial funding for new buses has been contingent on making accessible bus purchases since at least 2003. Also, if you review the MTO's 2012-13 accessibility plan, you will see that they were only aiming for 96% accessible buses province-wide at year end 2012.

Technically even today there is no official requirement for transit stations to be accessible by 2025. The AODA requires the government to enact accessibility standards to make Ontario accessible for people with disabilities by Jan 1, 2025, but the Province has yet to enact anything specific to transit stations. Agreed that they need to provide the funding if they want this to happen on time.
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See the Accessible Transit Services Plan - 2012 Status Report at this link on the TTC website.

Accessible Conventional Streetcar Services

The current inaccessible streetcar fleet will be replaced with 204 modern, accessible low floor streetcars starting in 2014, with complete replacement scheduled by 2019. These vehicles will provide accessible service on the entire streetcar network and will be a major step forward for the TTC towards making all of its conventional transit services accessible. The first new low-floor streetcar arrived on TTC property in September 2012 and will be undergoing a series of performance, reliability, and safety tests throughout 2013 before entering revenue service. ACAT will assist the TTC in 2013 in evaluating the accessibility features of the new streetcars and will recommend design changes as necessary.


In conjunction with the introduction of the new low-floor streetcars, modifications will be made to existing streetcar platforms and on-street stops to implement accessibility features. In 2012, work was undertaken on the Spadina streetcar right-of-way to prepare for the new low-floor streetcars, including platform and shelter adjustments. The City of Toronto will begin the process of installing curb ramps at existing on-street streetcar stops starting in 2013. PRESTO fare-vending machines will also be installed at high demand stops as part of this work.
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This is the 2012 report, so look at it with a beginning of this year point of view.
 
W. K. Lis said:
See the Accessible Transit Services Plan - 2012 Status Report at this link on the TTC website.



This is the 2012 report, so look at it with a beginning of this year point of view.
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I hope that the CLRVs aren't all retired by the end of 2019 as a user on the Flexity thread suggested. I really hope not, but they do keep on saying they want the busititons to go until 2026.
 
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denfromoakvillemilton said:
Sadly Mike, I can see the scrapyard being an option.
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Off to the knackers they go.

12-louisville-lost-trolley-streetcar-system.jpg


Maybe one will go to San Francisco as a historical machine, but it will need to be totally stripped, blasted and rebuilt. Plus one to Milton https://hcry.org/ and a third to a museum somewhere else.
 
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