TTC: Bloor Danforth Line 2 West Extension(s)

[Hopkins123]

The next station after Kipling should definitely be directly at East Mall Cres and Dundas, but in doing so doesn't mean that the line couldn't veer down to West Mall and Queensway thereafter. Like this:



The best thing about this alignment is that it could be elevated the majority of the way, saving costs from no tunneling the ROW.

 

[Amare]

The best thing about this alignment is that it could be elevated the majority of the way, saving costs from no tunneling the ROW.

There would be a huge costs associated with tunneling under the Milton rail corridor and 427, so the costs would really outweigh any benefits if the subway is extended to Sherway.

Dont forget, a major arterial highway (404) was a big issue when the TTC was exploring extending the Sheppard subway 1 stop to Consumers in order to facilitate the construction of the Sheppard East LRT.

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

Dont forget, a major arterial highway (404) was a big issue when the TTC was exploring extending the Sheppard subway 1 stop to Consumers in order to facilitate the construction of the Sheppard East LRT.

Well I'm a big believer in doing what is right over what is easy.

And, I guess, when it comes to transit in Toronto, that's the biggest problem with my views.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

People are missing the point of Sherway. A subway connection there would allow the redevelopment of all the big box parcels of land north of the mall.

It would also connect with the Queensway corridor, whose entireity should be zoned for dense development, and an LRT should be built.

There is no loss for Dundas as a a rapid transit corridor as a BRT or LRT built there can still connect to a hub at the Cloverdale station. Building subway on Dundas past 427 is a huge overkill.

 

[Amare]

People are missing the point of Sherway. A subway connection there would allow the redevelopment of all the big box parcels of land north of the mall.

It would also connect with the Queensway corridor, whose entireity should be zoned for dense development, and an LRT should be built.

The only thing is, that the city (surprisingly) has a development plan in place for the Smartcentres north of the mall that is not dependent on transit. The only thing a subway would do is increase densities more-so than what is already planned for.

As for an LRT on Queensway, it makes too much logical sense for the city to proceed with something like that. Therefore, we will never see it in our lifetime.

 

[crs1026]

A Queensway LRT would generate more new ridership, and serve a more intense amount of upcoming development, than a Sherway subway link. So I would put it higher on the spending priorities than Line 2 beyond Cloverdale.
Both are less important than DRL and Waterfront LRT. So we are talking a lot of years down the road. We have yet to fund even these.

- Paul

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

A Queensway LRT would generate more new ridership, and serve a more intense amount of upcoming development, than a Sherway subway link. So I would put it higher on the spending priorities than Line 2 beyond Cloverdale.
Both are less important than DRL and Waterfront LRT. So we are talking a lot of years down the road. We have yet to fund even these.

- Paul

Undoubtedly the DRL and WLRT are funding priorities. But Queensway, Sherway, the Six-Points and Dundas corridors are where we need to be looking at to concentrate a lot of the future growth we are expected to get. We need to begin thinking about them today.

As for Line 2 extension, it would be relatively cheap compared to other subway expansion projects.

 

[BurlOak]

Extension to honeydale mall would be very cheap. Eventually at grade the whole way.
It would restore Toronto's confidence that they can actually accomplish something without delay or cost overrun. We need a few quick wins (and this is 1), because everyone involved in transit has their reputations tarnished badly.

 

[interchange42]

The report on the Sherway Gardens area, which includes a transportation plan, is going to Etobicoke York Community Council on November 15th

http://app.toronto.ca/tmmis/viewAgendaItemHistory.do?item=2016.EY18.8

It identifies the need for a new transit hub to serve the area, on the north side of Sherway Gardens.



Interesting choice of words.... I'm not knowledgeable - how does an "approved location" for a hypothetical subway station reach approved status?

- Paul

To get back to that question…

Essentially there are already existing Sherway Area policies which have been in place to guide development to this point. The existing policies include a corridor and station location for a potential subway extension, which has been in place so that anything that has been built would not preclude that extension in the future. They've been protecting for it "just in case".

The new study, which responds to the way the city is changing by foreseeing that the densification pressures we have in other areas could (and probably should) come here, affirms the protected route and station location. Just in case.

42

 

[drum118]

Extension to honeydale mall would be very cheap. Eventually at grade the whole way.
It would restore Toronto's confidence that they can actually accomplish something without delay or cost overrun. We need a few quick wins (and this is 1), because everyone involved in transit has their reputations tarnished badly.

How are you going to do grade when the rail corridor is off the table and a nice condo west of Kipling in the way??

Under Waterfront Reset, the city has already rule out an LRT on the Queensway which is pure dumb.

Taking it west of 427 and having a terminal at West Mall will only see service by Mississauga & GO as well the TTC west wall route. It would become the Gateway Hub in place of Cloverdale, but miss the Milton GO Connection forcing riders to pay an extra fare going one stop.

Stop the line at Cloverdale, as it will be about 50 years before it is needed to go elsewhere.

 

[rbt]

How are you going to do grade when the rail corridor is off the table and a nice condo west of Kipling in the way??

Expropriating and demolishing a single 200 unit condominium is cheaper than a 2km tunnelling contract, and much much cheaper than underground stations.

While it's difficult politically, it's still an option worth studying.

 

[drum118]

Expropriating and demolishing a single 200 unit condominium is cheaper than a 2km tunnelling contract, and much much cheaper than underground stations.

While it's difficult politically, it's still an option worth studying.

Not going to happen unless the city is buying up land west of that area for protection of such ROW. There been no land buying by the city that I know of.

You got the Kip District underway west of that condo and then the Pinnacle development.

It will be tunnel and why the tunnel from the Regional Terminal to the GO Platform at Kipling became an overpass.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

Under Waterfront Reset, the city has already rule out an LRT on the Queensway which is pure dumb.

No. They ruled it out because it was irrelevant to the Waterfront Reset study area.

 

[Fred.S]

I think the Queensway LRT would make a lot of sense if and when the DRL extends west to the Roncesvalles/Queen area. That would make a logical terminal point for it and an LRT to Long Branch, and a western terminus for the 501, and make for a much better connection downtown.

As for the Line 2 extension, I'm generally very skeptical about any extensions to line 1 or 2, because they are already too crowded, and I think the focus should be to move people towards GO for longer distance trips, through fare integration. Although in this case, a one-stop extension to Sherway wouldn't be the worst thing. Although I don't see the density at the East Mall.

We also really need to stop spending money on building subways in low-density areas...

 

[DonValleyRainbow]

I think we are losing focus on building a network here.

People are missing the point of Sherway. A subway connection there would allow the redevelopment of all the big box parcels of land north of the mall.

It would also connect with the Queensway corridor, whose entireity should be zoned for dense development, and an LRT should be built.

There is no loss for Dundas as a a rapid transit corridor as a BRT or LRT built there can still connect to a hub at the Cloverdale station. Building subway on Dundas past 427 is a huge overkill.

This sounds like a 'build it and they will come' justification. Isn't that what 'we' are using to justify SSE?

I do not see a subway on Dundas west of the 427 as overkill because it makes operations more efficient, and creates a better mobility hub. I place a high value on that, but maybe that's just me.

A Queensway LRT would generate more new ridership, and serve a more intense amount of upcoming development, than a Sherway subway link. So I would put it higher on the spending priorities than Line 2 beyond Cloverdale.
Both are less important than DRL and Waterfront LRT. So we are talking a lot of years down the road. We have yet to fund even these.

This is a good point, but I don't think it prohibits including it in a network approach. A Queensway LRT/streetcar would be a great way of densifying that corridor.

Under Waterfront Reset, the city has already rule out an LRT on the Queensway which is pure dumb.

Again, although the corridor was ruled out, it wouldn't hurt to implement something higher order than buses.

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Bringing all of this together, I think it would be prudent to take a network approach to this.

• Extend Line 2 west to the West Mall, and start Dundas BRT operations from this point.
• Implement Waterfront West LRT as planned
• Implement Highway 427 South BRT, and extend to Long Branch.
• Create higher-order Transit on Queensway.

These create conditions that make transit operations and transfers more efficient, and spur development in multiple corridors. I would consider them minor revisions to what's already laid out in The Big Move. It's a lot of money in total, but if you implement this network, piece-by-piece, I think you get something way more efficient than a crazy subway extension to Sherway; a network of 5 transit lines and 3 mobility hubs.