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Transit Fantasy Maps

nfitz said:
Most of the Paris metro lines, like Montreal, normally run on rubber tyres. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rubber-tyred_metro
Click to expand...

True, but the lines with tires have regular rails between the tire guides and the rolling stock has steel wheels higher than the tires, in case of tire failures or for use at crossings. So in a sense all lines have rails, and the steel-wheeled trains seem to outnumber the rubber-tired ones at this point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Métro#Rolling_stock
 
the lemur said:
True, but the lines with tires have regular rails between the tire guides and the rolling stock has steel wheels higher than the tires, in case of tire failures or for use at crossings. So in a sense all lines have rails, and the steel-wheeled trains seem to outnumber the rubber-tired ones at this point:
Click to expand...
True, but I carefully said "normally. In all my years riding on the Metro in Montreal, the only time I EVER felt the train running on the rails, was when Place-St-Henri was a temporary terminus in 1980/1981 and trains would change tracks between Lionel-Groulx and Place-Saint-Henri. I haven't felt any trains running on rails in the approximately 35 years since then. I expect many riders in Montreal have never felt a train running on anything but tyres.

I've certainly never experienced a tyre failure! Have you?
 
the lemur said:
True, but the lines with tires have regular rails between the tire guides and the rolling stock has steel wheels higher than the tires, in case of tire failures or for use at crossings. So in a sense all lines have rails, and the steel-wheeled trains seem to outnumber the rubber-tired ones at this point:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paris_Métro#Rolling_stock
Click to expand...

Lol, this is why I would never go to your UT get togethers. I imagine everyone is like this guy.
 
nfitz said:
True, but I carefully said "normally. In all my years riding on the Metro in Montreal, the only time I EVER felt the train running on the rails, was when Place-St-Henri was a temporary terminus in 1980/1981 and trains would change tracks between Lionel-Groulx and Place-Saint-Henri. I haven't felt any trains running on rails in the approximately 35 years since then. I expect many riders in Montreal have never felt a train running on anything but tyres.

I've certainly never experienced a tyre failure! Have you?
Click to expand...

I was actually referring to the setup in Paris, but in any case I haven't experienced a failure of any kind either in Montreal or Paris.
 
gweed123 said:
Good looking map! I'm working on something similar right now, trying to fit it onto the 20x28" poster. I found very early on that the X axis definitely needs to be condensed in order to make it fit, and you did a good job of that.

I'll point out a few differences on the map that I'm working on, just so that we can compare notes, in case it gives one of us an idea that'll improve a future version:

1) The biggest change that I've done is I've shown the streetcar lines on my map, using a thinner line weight red colour. No stops or anything are shown, just an indication of "hey, these are actually there". LRT lines are shown in the same line weight, but are independently coloured.

2) I think I've worked out a numbering/lettering system that works well, and wouldn't require the TTC to re-sign anything they've just recently signed. The basis is this: Heavy Rail (Subway and GO RER) lines are numbered, while LRT, BRT, and streetcar routes are lettered. This gives an instant level of stratification, whereby longer haul routes are numbered, and secondary or feeder routes are lettered.

3) I've shown connecting local transit routes from other municipalities in grey. I think they're useful to show for connectivity purposes, and the grey is 'passive' enough that it doesn't draw the eye. I think showing the TTC system as part of a larger, interconnected regional system is important.

4) I've shown GO RER lines in a light green, because I think in the not-too-distant future they'll become as important to transit in Toronto as most TTC RT routes are now. SmartTrack is shown in a different colour.

5) I'm using a vertical tick along the line to indicate an LRT stop, whereas I have full circles to indicate actual stations. I think the distinctions between full stations and stops is important, but I also think that stops should be labelled on the RT map as well. Streetcar stops are fine to omit though, as there's way too many of them.

6) With the extra vertical space on the map, I'm also including a simplified version of the GO RER network, so that riders can see the extent of that network, even if it isn't shown on the actual TTC map. It won't have nearly as much detail as the TTC version, but I think that's important to include.

Great map though. And I like that you've only used 0, 45, and 90 degree angles. I think that increases legibility immensely, even if it does create the occasional distortion.
Click to expand...

Thanks. And I’m very much looking forward to your map. The way you organized different levels of service for your previous GO REX maps is definitely a proper way of going about things. And if your numbering/lettering is anything like those, it should be pretty solid. Also that INAT standard you told me about months ago would be good to incorporate for our system; clean, bright, smooth flowing...it’s what I’d imagine for the future. And a big improvement to the current TTC standard (but TBH I don’t think TTC even has a “standardâ€).

I’m definitely eager to see how you go about placing the streetcar system, and labeling Crosstown East, FWLRT, and SELRT. Last night I made a brief attempt. But when I saw how many stops there’d be, and that it would involve me having to move lines (which meant moving other lines, and stations) – I dropped the whole thing. I think I was more interested in what shade of red the DRL should be.

***
And are we certain the Crosstown underground and in-median portions are to be run as one continual line? I thought Steve Munro said something in 2013 about Metrolinx wanting ATC: http://stevemunro.ca/2013/06/17/met...-changes-and-public-meetings-on-eglinton-lrt/

Metrolinx intends to use automatic train control on the underground section of Eglinton, and the yard access will be part of the ATC territory...
Click to expand...

Will the driver just sit there with a newspaper until east of Laird where they'll take over controls, or are they hinting at running each section of the Crosstown separately (i.e no interlining)?
 
44 North said:
Will the driver just sit there with a newspaper until east of Laird where they'll take over controls, or are they hinting at running each section of the Crosstown separately (i.e no interlining)?
Click to expand...

Vehicles will be operated from end to end. It hasn't been announced whether the operators will do in the automated section. They might twiddle their thumbs, they could get up and move around the train (on London's DLR operators check tickets and operate the controls to close the doors), or they could enter/leave the vehicle at Laird.
 
Yes, it is one transit line that's continuous. That's why if you go to the project's website, it shows a rapid transit map where it's one solid orange line. It's called "Crosstown" because you should be able to get across town continuously :).. at least Kennedy to Black Creek.

It's detailed here in Chapter 3:
http://thecrosstown.ca/the-project/reports/epr-addendum-report

That describes the changes since the original transit city EA. So for example, how it's now shortened to end at Black Creek, with a big bus bay and maintenance facility there.

Here are some quotes from the above: (Section 3.1.2.1)

LRT operating headways will likely vary throughout the corridor. The tunnel
portion of the LRT corridor will have turn-back capability at both ends of the
tunnel section to allow the LRT to operate with short turn service and provide
shorter headways than on the surface sections. Headways on the surface section
of the LRT may also vary depending on ridership demand.
Click to expand...

Section 3.2.1
Train operations on the surface sections of the LRT corridor, both train control and
opening/closing of doors, will be controlled by on-board staff. In the underground
and grade-separated section of the LRT corridor, vehicles will be controlled by
Automatic Train Operation (ATO).
Click to expand...

My interpretation of the above is that in the tunnel the operator will only focus on operating the doors. When the train leaves the tunnel after Laird the human driver will take over, and when it enters the tunnel the computer driver will take over.

You can also email them if you want confirmation.
 
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ehlow said:
Yes, it is one transit line that's continuous. That's why if you go to the project's website, it shows a rapid transit map where it's one solid orange line. It's called "Crosstown" because you should be able to get across town continuously :).. at least Kennedy to Black Creek.
Click to expand...

Thx for the info. And sorry for bringing it up again. Perhaps I was confusing things with how it was to be operated with the SRT rebuild. I recall their being a hubbub a few years back when there were claims the entire Crosstown and SLRT wouldn’t be able to run as a continuous line from Black Creek to Markham Rd. I’m not even sure if that’s correct, or if I’m making it up. Too many plans, too many changes, hard to find reliable info.

But if it was true; I get that the headways would have to be different for each section, and that certain trains would have to turn back at Laird or Kennedy. But I don’t see why the Crosstown and SLRT couldn’t have been run as one route. Even if 1 /4 of the trains did the complete trip, it probably would’ve been popular to some.
 
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