Transit Fantasy Maps

[MrsNesbitt]

I too am worried about Humber Bay Shores. We have such clear and present examples of the danger of isolating high-density communities and starving them of transit in this city that I'm truly disappointed that we continue to overlook what we're doing in South Etobicoke.

That being said, while I support a WWLRT, there are some very effective intermediate measures which could be brought into being in the meantime (ie before a costly new LRT is constructed) to bring a significant degree of transit relief to HBS. Chiefly, Lakeshore West is already the most-frequent and best-served GO line. Combine that with the impending RER-ization of the system, likely starting with Lakeshore anyways (turning it into one of John Tory's vaunted "surface subways"), and I don't see why Metrolinx isn't building a GO station at Park Lawn right now. That would immediately satisfy a large portion of the transit needs of HBS residents working downtown. Of course, we'll still have to deal with the issue of fares for anyone commuting to somewhere that needs to use the TTC in their journey additionally from southern Etobicoke, but infill GO stations along Lakeshore West (plus upping the frequency so that residents of these areas can fit into the trains among the Oakvilleans) could be a very important and effective first step to bringing transit relief to the area.

 

[Midtown Urbanist]

I definitely would endorse those options too. A neighbourhood thrives when it is given a variety of transit options.

I would emphasize however that WWLRT is among the cheapest of the LRT projects and is the easiest and quickest one to build. Correct me if I am wrong, but I think we can almost entirely fund the WWLRT with the Scarborough Subway tax increase alone? Either way, this is something that should have rubber-stamped and proceeded on with by now. The EA is done and beyond being comparatively cheap and easy to build, it is a no-brainer with already existing ridership, little to-no political opposition, and will direct transit-oriented development in a crucially important region of Toronto's future.

Why are we going against the trend with trying to force intensive and transit-oriented development in the suburbs, an adventure that has already a proven failure in this city, instead of focusing development and investment in our booming downtown periphery?

 

[TheTigerMaster]

IIRC, the thing costs about half a billion to build. It's a no brainer, especially for a city that sees no problem with throwing away $7 Billion+ on projects like Sheppard Line, Spadina Extension and the Line 2 east extension.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

I am disappointed still that WWLRT is perpetually left behind in the roundtable talks. If any LRT after Eglinton (And Scarborough due to SRT) should be prioritized, its that one. We are in the real danger of having South Etobicoke and the Humber Bay Shores develop as a car-oriented suburb with highrises due to the lack of public transit options.

Last I heard, TTC officials were in talk with provincial officials regarding WWLRT. Hopefully something will materialize soon.

 

[nfitz]

Last I heard, TTC officials were in talk with provincial officials regarding WWLRT. Hopefully something will materialize soon.

Really? I'd have thought it would be way down the list, far behind Scarborough-Malvern and East Bayfront.

 

[TheTigerMaster]

Really? I'd have thought it would be way down the list, far behind Scarborough-Malvern and East Bayfront.

Toronto bureaucrats bypass politicians to make waterfront LRT pitch

Includes east Bayfront and WWLRT.

I do agree that it should be down the priority list. The Scarbrough-Malvern LRT should have been our #2 priority after the Eglinton Scarborough Crosstown LRT, if we were to decide priority based on projected ridership. SMLRT would have moved almost as many people at ECLRT does at peak point.

 

[44 North]

Okay, here’s a map of what i was talking about (I basically deleted a bunch of things from my fantasy map). It’s mostly to-scale with little distortion (other than south of B/D which was slightly stretched on its Y axis); fits an existing space in the subway car (20†x 28†ad space by the door); and font is only slightly smaller (but seemingly still legible). I was hoping that station names wouldn’t have to be angled, but I don’t think it could’ve been done otherwise (tho I may try something later by rotating the map 90deg clockwise and keeping station names horizontal).

Was a bit hesitant to draw in the in-median LRTs, but I gave them a different weighting than the subway system. As well, seeing that we have other higher-speed surface routes, I basically lumped them all together (FWLRT, SELRT, Crosstown East, 509, East Bayfront, St Clair, Airport Express etc).

SmartTrack makes its presence as well. It’s also shown with a different weighting. Whereas in-median is shown with a smaller line width because of slower service constrained by traffic, SmartTrack is shown with a smaller width because it’s less frequent. And whereas Tory oddly gave the line a green colour (despite the fact that B/D is already green), I gave it a blue (which has been cannibalized from Line 3 SRT).

What’s clear is that other than having to fit the narrow rectangle above the door, the subway map schematic does not need massive distortion to be 'simplified' or easier to understand. Our grid-like Tic Tac Toe network is pretty simple as it is. And like London or NYC, the distortion should mostly be located in the inner city/downtown where lines overlap and stations are closer together.

70†x 11†map (from TransitToronto)

20†x 28†attempt

 

[ehlow]

Nice map. I'm fine with in median being thinner but Eglinton East should also be orange since it's part of the same transit line. The way you have it now implies a transfer, which there isn't.

 

[BurlOak]

The angled names really look better than the horizontal ones. The wide narrow map (70x11) should be that way too.

The LRT's should have dots for stops as it currently looks like it is an express route from one point to another.

If St. Clair is on the map, should Spadina also be there.

I don't see the need for a diagram of a subway car. Wouldn't you also need one for a streetcar and LRT too.

 

[44 North]

Good points. I guess the in-median should at least have ticks or dots to show where stops are (dunno about names though). And then adding in Spadina? Hmm, it’d be a tight fit. That’s one of the problems I see with including in-median LRT and the Airport Rocket. Where do we draw the line? What about BRT, express buses, ferries, UPX, all of GO...? Although this is another reason why I think the map can no longer fit in that narrow gap above the door. It's cramped as it is.

And re: Eglinton East. I thought it was concluded that the underground portion would be operated separately from the in-median portion? Guess not...dunno why I thought that.

And the emergency evac info is only there because I wanted to fill the space and make it look like the existing map. I’d be fine with it not being there and the whole thing being completely square (e.g 20†x 20â€)

 

[MrsNesbitt]

Good points. I guess the in-median should at least have ticks or dots to show where stops are (dunno about names though). And then adding in Spadina? Hmm, it’d be a tight fit. That’s one of the problems I see with including in-median LRT and the Airport Rocket. Where do we draw the line? What about BRT, express buses, ferries, UPX, all of GO...? Although this is another reason why I think the map can no longer fit in that narrow gap above the door. It's cramped as it is.

And re: Eglinton East. I thought it was concluded that the underground portion would be operated separately from the in-median portion? Guess not...dunno why I thought that.

And the emergency evac info is only there because I wanted to fill the space and make it look like the existing map. I’d be fine with it not being there and the whole thing being completely square (e.g 20” x 20”)

If I recall correctly, the plan was/is to run at least some of the trips on the Crosstown to short-turn at Don Mills...though my memory is a little hazy on whether anything has become of that.

While I like your map in general, and specifically for turning the extremely-horizontally-stretched TTC map into something a little more reasonably-proportioned, I think that one can make an argument that in-median LRT (Eglinton East, Sheppard East, Finch West) should be shown no different than subway on the TTC map—at the least, it should definitely not be marked the same as the ROW streetcar lines on Spadina or St. Clair. The more that you visually and symbolically divide a line between subway and LRT, the greater the anti-LRT sentiment will be in this city. The cries of "glorified streetcars" will only get louder if the untrained eye can more easily link LRT visually to a streetcar line than a subway line on a map.

I know it's a ridiculous point of view for anyone to have, but the sad reality is that people are going to look for any excuse to push forward that ridiculous point of view.

 

[ehlow]

Good points. I guess the in-median should at least have ticks or dots to show where stops are (dunno about names though). And then adding in Spadina? Hmm, it’d be a tight fit. That’s one of the problems I see with including in-median LRT and the Airport Rocket. Where do we draw the line? What about BRT, express buses, ferries, UPX, all of GO...? Although this is another reason why I think the map can no longer fit in that narrow gap above the door. It's cramped as it is.

And re: Eglinton East. I thought it was concluded that the underground portion would be operated separately from the in-median portion? Guess not...dunno why I thought that.

And the emergency evac info is only there because I wanted to fill the space and make it look like the existing map. I’d be fine with it not being there and the whole thing being completely square (e.g 20” x 20”)

It's possible that some Eglinton trains will short turn before going into the eastern surface part. However, the same thing happens at St Clair West station on the YUS subway. It's still one continuous transit line.

Anyone boarding a train in Scarborough in the eastern section will be able to ride west to Black Creek on the same vehicle.

 

[wopchop]

The map should provide passengers with the information needed to navigate the transit system. Excluding the stops from Eglinton East, and treating it on the map as a different line (being in gray implies this) does not assist passengers at all, and actually makes navigating the system needlessly difficult. It's one line, and it should be shown as such.

 

[APTA-2048]

Also Yorkdale is south of Wilson.

 

[ehlow]

The map should provide passengers with the information needed to navigate the transit system. Excluding the stops from Eglinton East, and treating it on the map as a different line (being in gray implies this) does not assist passengers at all, and actually makes navigating the system needlessly difficult. It's one line, and it should be shown as such.

I agree. Why not show the stops? The stop spacing is the same as a subway, there's room to show them.

And obviously, as I pointed out before, it should be the same colour since it's a continuous line. You don't need to get out of the vehicle and enter another vehicle to continue (like at Sheppard & Don Mills). There is no transfer.

You can look at San Francisco or Boston green line as examples, two systems with light rail that's partly in a tunnel, partly in-median ROW like Eglinton will be.