TheTigerMaster
Superstar
The blue line is interesting. I've never seen that kind of setup before.
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innsertnamehere
Superstar
It essentially started as me trying to find a way to justify building a Dundas subway line with sufficient ridership numbers, and I just sort of though of feeding the Scarborough portion of the B-D line into it.
the whole purpose of the system was to try to minimize crowding on the system. I tried to make it so that ridership never really goes beyond 20,000 PPHD. The only spot where it would go over that is the Yonge line (Yellow), but otherwise most lines will be between 10,000 and 20,000 PPHD (other than Sheppard which is probably closer to 5,000, but I included it as it is the best way to deal with the existing sheppard subway) This sort of setup would allow for serious ridership growth on all portions of the system, and would free up space on the existing network. only problem is that it would cost stupid amounts of money.
the whole purpose of the system was to try to minimize crowding on the system. I tried to make it so that ridership never really goes beyond 20,000 PPHD. The only spot where it would go over that is the Yonge line (Yellow), but otherwise most lines will be between 10,000 and 20,000 PPHD (other than Sheppard which is probably closer to 5,000, but I included it as it is the best way to deal with the existing sheppard subway) This sort of setup would allow for serious ridership growth on all portions of the system, and would free up space on the existing network. only problem is that it would cost stupid amounts of money.
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Hipster Duck
Senior Member
Line decoupling is more common than we think. The very first subway line in New York was a combination of today's 1,2,3 (red) along Broadway in the Upper West Side, the 4,5,6 (green) along Park Ave. and what is today called the "42nd street shuttle". The line was split in 1918, when the line along Broadway was extended south, the line along Park was extended north on nearby Lexington, and the weird section on 42nd street became a two stop shuttle.
Is the Yonge line (yellow) south of Eglinton an express line (stops at St. Clair, Bloor, Dundas, and King/Union), or would it have similar stop spacing to YUS? Obviously the Yonge Line west of Union would have normal subway stop spacing.
And yes, the Blue Line is pretty interesting. In the end, I think the Scarborough Subway should become a segment of a downtown-bound line instead of an extension of Bloor-Danforth. The component east of the DRL could be built as part of the DRL, and then eventually de-coupled to become the Blue Line once it's built west of that location.
JWBF
Senior Member
Rainforest Is right that the SRT was built before the MRT lines in Vancouver. Actually, the SRT was the test bed for the technology by a fairly new company, Urban Transportation Development Corporation (UTDC), who also built the ALRV (street cars) that are just to be replaced by the new LRV made by Bombardier. The ALRVs were to be the cars used on the SRT originally until Prem. Davis, etc. decided different.
The Mark 1 ITCS trains were an almost prototype MRV that needed some would say extreme upgrades to handle not least of all, winter. I know this fact intimately, I was ridding the SRT in the first winter, with snow blowing in the doors, wind, and colder temps inside than outside. Anyway, Vancouver got a mature ITCS
innsertnamehere
Superstar
It would run express skipping Davisville, Summerhill, Rosedale, Wellesley, and having a combo King/Union station stop. station list south of Eglinton would go Eglinton - St. Clair - Bloor - College - Dundas - Queen - King/Union - Waterfront
TheTigerMaster
Superstar
I love your Yonge Express Subway (YES)
I proposed something similar a little ago, but had it terminate at Southcore. Poor forthought on my part. That would be a logical terminal for 2014, but I cant imagine how I credibly dense downtown east of Spadina will be in 35 years. The University Subway, which already acts as a Yonge relief line, will definitely be at full capacity by then. The next logical spot for a subway would be Spadina. Great job innsert
My only criticism is that the Spadina terminal doesn't give the line anywhere to expand in the foreseeable future.
I proposed something similar a little ago, but had it terminate at Southcore. Poor forthought on my part. That would be a logical terminal for 2014, but I cant imagine how I credibly dense downtown east of Spadina will be in 35 years. The University Subway, which already acts as a Yonge relief line, will definitely be at full capacity by then. The next logical spot for a subway would be Spadina. Great job innsert
My only criticism is that the Spadina terminal doesn't give the line anywhere to expand in the foreseeable future.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
Would-be setup of Union station;
Red: station platform
Orange: Walkway between Platforms
Brown: Staircase (the DRL and Yonge express platforms are lower)
Yellow: Subway tracks between stations
Light Green: Streetcar tunnel
All access tunnels (orange) are at platform level, with the exception of the one between the DRL and Yonge Express, which is at concourse level. Yonge express subway tunnels would dip below the DRL tunnel, and the Yonge Express platform may have to be a bit lower to account for this.
Red: station platform
Orange: Walkway between Platforms
Brown: Staircase (the DRL and Yonge express platforms are lower)
Yellow: Subway tracks between stations
Light Green: Streetcar tunnel
All access tunnels (orange) are at platform level, with the exception of the one between the DRL and Yonge Express, which is at concourse level. Yonge express subway tunnels would dip below the DRL tunnel, and the Yonge Express platform may have to be a bit lower to account for this.
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BurlOak
Senior Member
I added the Sheppard line. There is a bit over $4B available for Scarborough. With the money from the City property tax increase and the federal contribution, there is a bit under $6B available for Scarborough. That additional $1.5B was promised for a subway, so it may be able to be transferred to any grade-separated transit, but probably not in-median transit. None the less, I show several options for Scarborough for the available money.
Oops, I just realized that I added the SRT extension from Sheppard to Malvern into the base case. I guess $400M should be subtracted from all scenarios.
By the way, what is the logic of stopping the SRT at Sheppard - one station before the "ultimate" terminal station. I understand there will be no bus terminal at +/- Markham Road and Sheppard, so how will those passengers get onto the SRT.
Oops, I just realized that I added the SRT extension from Sheppard to Malvern into the base case. I guess $400M should be subtracted from all scenarios.
By the way, what is the logic of stopping the SRT at Sheppard - one station before the "ultimate" terminal station. I understand there will be no bus terminal at +/- Markham Road and Sheppard, so how will those passengers get onto the SRT.
Attachments
Rainforest
Senior Member
Took a go at what I think the TTC should be come 2050: note that this is just RT, surface LRT isn't included
1) I like the Blue line.
2) I like Yonge Express as well. Although, if it turns back north anyway, I would go up Dufferin rather than up Spadina. Spadina is doing well already with its dedicated-lane streetcars, while Dufferin buses struggle in mixed traffic. Plus, a southern subway that reaches Dufferin will serve the growing Liberty Village area.
3) I would make an exception for Eglinton LRT, and draw it up to Kennedy even though the section between Don Mills and Kennedy is in street median; to show the connection to subway. Obviously, riders coming from Scarborough on the subway and wishing to transfer to Eglinton line, will do so at Kennedy. They will not go south and then back up north using one of other subway lines, just to avoid a 6-km street-median section.
4) Sheppard subway's connection north towards York U would be nice to have, but is no longer feasible because the Spadina extension is all tunneled. It will be easier to connect it south, using the mostly surface segment between Downsview and Wilson.
5) If we want to serve Mississauga with a subway, I'd rather send the western end of the Blue line there, and make it an express (1.5 - 2 km stop spacing within Toronto, about 1 km within Mississauga). That would enable direct trips between Mississauga and Toronto's CBD, with a reasonable travel time (30 - 35 min).
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Interline it. No reason Sheppard trains couldn't go to Vaughan.
RyanM12
New Member
I had an account, but I haven't been here in a few years and can't sign in anymore, so I made a new account.
Here's my idea of a fantasy network. I haven't included LRT/BRT or Go Transit, but we can assume places like Sheppard and Finch have some form of Light Rail.
The concept is each line starts in one of the outer suburbs and takes a different route downtown, in effect creating a denser inner city network, which aside from providing better access downtown, distributes the passenger load onto different routes.
The College/Gerrard line might be a stretch. And I have both King and Queen, but King could be Wellington or rail corridor, whichever.
Here's my idea of a fantasy network. I haven't included LRT/BRT or Go Transit, but we can assume places like Sheppard and Finch have some form of Light Rail.
The concept is each line starts in one of the outer suburbs and takes a different route downtown, in effect creating a denser inner city network, which aside from providing better access downtown, distributes the passenger load onto different routes.
The College/Gerrard line might be a stretch. And I have both King and Queen, but King could be Wellington or rail corridor, whichever.
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Rainforest
Senior Member
The connectivity benefit is there, but technically it will be harder to create such connection after the TYSSE tunnels are already built.
It would be much easier to built if provisions for Sheppard trains were included in the TYSSE design from the start.
innsertnamehere
Superstar
There is a large cut and cover portion north of downsview, probably a good 300 meters long.
Rainforest
Senior Member
Yes, but it is oriented north to south. The Sheppard line would come from the east, and it will be difficult to squeeze a curve and wyes and connect to that section, let alone add a Downsview station on the Sheppard line.
It would probably be easiest to build a connection station at Chesswood, with 3 or 4 platforms, and have the Sheppard line first cross under Spadina line, then curve north and then west again, so the two lines could converge at Chesswood. Obviously, such option is off the table now, as TYSSE construction is in its final stages.