Transit Fantasy Maps

[Dan416]

This is my first attempt, I welcome all comments. I hope you all enjoy

https://mapsengine.google.com/map/edit?mid=zngMwABUqqTI.krKz9IFHQdVs&hl=en

At least you brought the BD line to MCC. Although I think bringing it to Hurontario-Dundas would be sufficient. If need be, just take the Hurontaro LRT up to Square One. Hopefully it'd be quick. But I guess we'll see.

 

[Hopkins123]

At least you brought the BD line to MCC. Although I think bringing it to Hurontario-Dundas would be sufficient. If need be, just take the Hurontaro LRT up to Square One. Hopefully it'd be quick. But I guess we'll see.

I think Hurontario between the QEW and Bristol is dense enough to support a subway or underground LRT. As for the map, nice ideas there. If the Sheppard Line was ever extended west of Downsview, it'd go a long way towards alleviating northwest Toronto.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I made something new and tried to address problems.

I'm going to be honest, you have a lot of redundant corridors there. Sheppard into Pickering will sit empty, as it will west of Downsview. (mind you the entire line will be empty in general, but those areas barely justify BRT yet alone subway) Bloor danforth into MCC is a bit of a convoluted route, and would be better served by a GO tunnel with 15 minute service anyway. I would end Bloor at Sherway Gardens, or if you have to bring it to MCC have it go back up to the rail corridor and have it follow that to Hurontario instead. Finch LRT is overkill east of Yonge, BRT is fine, and even that isn't needed if you have a sheppard subway. DRL probably runs too far north on the west side, it should probably end at eglinton based on demand. Having a Kennedy LRT, Scarborough subway, and markham LRT within 4km of each other is overkill as well. Scarborough subway would handle the demand just fine. The kipling LRT is interesting and is the only major north south corridor that doesn't already have a proposal in some kind for, but it may be better on islington. That would have to be determined by a proper study though. Langstaff and Langstaff south seems a bit silly as well..

My opinion, though mind you the current setup planned with the DRL running to Eglinton on both sides and the unfunded transit city LRTs (shortened for the DRL replacement in some sections) is essentially a built out network for me for the forseeable future, so much more than that seems way too overkill for me. Start focusing on streetcar extensions and network expansion into the 905 after that.

At least you brought the BD line to MCC. Although I think bringing it to Hurontario-Dundas would be sufficient. If need be, just take the Hurontaro LRT up to Square One. Hopefully it'd be quick. But I guess we'll see.

I think Hurontario between the QEW and Bristol is dense enough to support a subway or underground LRT. As for the map, nice ideas there. If the Sheppard Line was ever extended west of Downsview, it'd go a long way towards alleviating northwest Toronto.

The reason why for that was because of the lack of north south transit. I wanted to provide multiple options so people didn't have to travel to the YUS. But I eliminated them after taking a second look. Shortened the BD line to Hurontario and Dundas, although I think MCC would attract riders from as far out as Milton and Georgetown. It would be very successful, although that would push the entire system to critical mass. YUS is the same. I am not a fan of the York Region extensions at all, to be honest. I cut Sheppard off at Meadowvale. It is LRT after Fairview (Sorry Coruscanti) Eglinton I brought to Malvern Centre. The place is undeserved with transit, now it has the Sheppard LRT and Eglinton LRT. I don't really like Martin Grove as a stop on Finch or Morningside. I gave Islington a BRT, I think the demand is there. Jane has a LRT, but not south of Bloor.

Here's the new map

 

[gweed123]

I think Hurontario between the QEW and Bristol is dense enough to support a subway or underground LRT. As for the map, nice ideas there. If the Sheppard Line was ever extended west of Downsview, it'd go a long way towards alleviating northwest Toronto.

I think the most efficient arrangement would be to dig a tunnel that is 4-tracked under Hurontario: middle tracks for underground LRT (Hurontario LRT and possibly the Eglinton LRT if it ever gets extended to MCC and then down Hurontario to Cooksville), and outside tracks for a GO REX spur from the Milton line to MCC.

Personally, I think a GO REX spur would be far more efficient than a subway, because it would still provide a connection to the Bloor-Danforth line, but would be a significantly faster way to get downtown than doing the milk run on Bloor-Danforth. Also, it would be a lot less expensive, because you wouldn't have to dig the line from Kipling or Honeydale to Hurontario, saving well over a billion right there.

As for the 4-tracked tunnel, yes that would add to the cost compared to building a 2 tracked tunnel, but Hurontario is wide enough that you could build a tunnel that wide and still have it only under half the road. Much more difficult to accomplish that on a pre-war urban arterial like Eglinton or Queen. Not only do you get a GO REX connection to MCC, but you get increased LRT capacity on what will be the busiest section of the line (from Dundas to MCC).

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

I think the most efficient arrangement would be to dig a tunnel that is 4-tracked under Hurontario: middle tracks for underground LRT (Hurontario LRT and possibly the Eglinton LRT if it ever gets extended to MCC and then down Hurontario to Cooksville), and outside tracks for a GO REX spur from the Milton line to MCC.

Personally, I think a GO REX spur would be far more efficient than a subway, because it would still provide a connection to the Bloor-Danforth line, but would be a significantly faster way to get downtown than doing the milk run on Bloor-Danforth. Also, it would be a lot less expensive, because you wouldn't have to dig the line from Kipling or Honeydale to Hurontario, saving well over a billion right there.

As for the 4-tracked tunnel, yes that would add to the cost compared to building a 2 tracked tunnel, but Hurontario is wide enough that you could build a tunnel that wide and still have it only under half the road. Much more difficult to accomplish that on a pre-war urban arterial like Eglinton or Queen. Not only do you get a GO REX connection to MCC, but you get increased LRT capacity on what will be the busiest section of the line (from Dundas to MCC).

Something like this?

I also added Cambridge for future exposition.

 

[gweed123]

Something like this?

I also added Cambridge for future exposition.

Yup, pretty much! What I ultimately envision for all GO REX lines is a route that runs the entire line (in the case of this line, from Cambridge to Union), and a 2nd overlapping line that runs a shorter route, from a major urban hub to another urban hub. For the Milton GO REX, the overlap route would be from MCC to Union. For Lakeshore, it's from Port Credit to Pickering. For the Brampton-Markham GO REX, it's from Pearson to STC.

This gives you near subway-level frequencies on the inner portions of the line, while still maintaining decent headways on the suburban portions of the line. It also connects some major urban hubs within the GTHA with high speed, high frequency rail. A trip from MCC to Union via the Mississauga Centre GO REX would be significantly faster than even a Bloor-Danforth connection to MCC could ever be. Even if you just want to get to say Yorkville, it would still be significantly faster to take the MC GO REX from MCC to Dundas West, and then transfer to Bloor-Danforth there.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Yup, pretty much! What I ultimately envision for all GO REX lines is a route that runs the entire line (in the case of this line, from Cambridge to Union), and a 2nd overlapping line that runs a shorter route, from a major urban hub to another urban hub. For the Milton GO REX, the overlap route would be from MCC to Union. For Lakeshore, it's from Port Credit to Pickering. For the Brampton-Markham GO REX, it's from Pearson to STC.

This gives you near subway-level frequencies on the inner portions of the line, while still maintaining decent headways on the suburban portions of the line. It also connects some major urban hubs within the GTHA with high speed, high frequency rail. A trip from MCC to Union via the Mississauga Centre GO REX would be significantly faster than even a Bloor-Danforth connection to MCC could ever be. Even if you just want to get to say Yorkville, it would still be significantly faster to take the MC GO REX from MCC to Dundas West, and then transfer to Bloor-Danforth there.

I like this, but how would we sell Mississauga residents on this?

 

[doady]

Bloor-Danforth extension along Dundas still makes sense regardless of what GO does. Dundas is an extremely busy corridor, esp. between 10 and Dixie. The Dundas buses (1/1C/101/201) get around 20,000 boardings per weekdays - it's actually very close to the ridership of Hurontario (around 26,000 boardings).

So Dundas should be LRT at least. However, while Dundas East is ripe for redevelopment, the development potential west of Confederation is very limited. So I think subway would be best, since light rail on Dundas West and in Oakville/Burlington would be a waste anyways. A Dundas light rail line should have to make use of the Hurontario corridor somehow, otherwise it would be a very short line.

You also have to think about how the Hurontario-Main LRT will affect Dundas and local transit ridership in Mississauga overall. If Dundas is already extremely busy as is, it's going to be crazy if it connects to the LRT and other improved transit.

 

[diminutive]

Downtown Fantasy Network

Probably not realistic, but my ideal network is below. It would create a strong radial rapid transit network linking all corners of the city to Union Station.

Lakeshore RT: Nothing very fancy. Ideally it would be GO's local service on the Lakeshore Lines, between Long Branch and Rouge Hill (maybe Port Credit - Pickering?). It would entail electrification and some station upgrades and additions. For example, I'd imagine something like Humberside-Parkdale-Exhibition-Spadina-Union-WDL-Gerrard Square-Main. This would free other GO services to run other services express through Toronto. Of 16 trains per hour, 10 would be such local trains which would look like this and detour into a Union Station interchange Station.

DRL: Standard Queen Street alignment. Rather than deal with creating two complex yet redundant interchange stations (Queen/Osgoode or King/St.Andrew), the line would dip south to approach Union station. The 'U' to get from Queen to Union and back would be complex, but it would cut down on the necessary number of stations. It's not shown on the map, but outside of downtown I'd expect this line to branch out to Pearson, Rexdale, Markham, Malvern and Scarborough.

Union Station: By far the most complicated part of this would be building a huge interchange structure beneath the current station somewhere. Ideally, the DRL & Lakeshore platforms would feed into a cross platform interchange, which would allow convenient transfers for regional traffic. These platforms would then feed into the Bay Street concourse or something.

Basically it would hinge on whether building one REALLY big union station would be cheaper than building two smaller, yet still complex, interchange stations on Queen or King.

 

[gweed123]

I like this, but how would we sell Mississauga residents on this?

Right now Lakeshore is the corridor that is closest from an infrastructure standpoint to being ready for GO REX. Implement it there first, and then propose GO REX on the Milton corridor, with a spur to MCC. It's easier to sell someone on a concept if they can experience it in action somewhere else.

Bloor-Danforth extension along Dundas still makes sense regardless of what GO does. Dundas is an extremely busy corridor, esp. between 10 and Dixie. The Dundas buses (1/1C/101/201) get around 20,000 boardings per weekdays - it's actually very close to the ridership of Hurontario (around 26,000 boardings).

So Dundas should be LRT at least. However, while Dundas East is ripe for redevelopment, the development potential west of Confederation is very limited. So I think subway would be best, since light rail on Dundas West and in Oakville/Burlington would be a waste anyways. A Dundas light rail line should have to make use of the Hurontario corridor somehow, otherwise it would be a very short line.

You also have to think about how the Hurontario-Main LRT will affect Dundas and local transit ridership in Mississauga overall. If Dundas is already extremely busy as is, it's going to be crazy if it connects to the LRT and other improved transit.

Good points. In my DRL proposal, it includes an extension to Honeydale for the purpose of a yard, as well as a new transit integrated terminus. This also leaves Bloor-Danforth pretty much on Mississauga's doorstep, within about 1km of the border. This would allow Mississauga to extend the subway on its own timeframe, without too much interference from Toronto, as there would be very little subway in Toronto to build in order to 'bridge the gap' (unlike what York Region is facing, with nearly 2km of subway needing to be built just to get into York Region).

I think that BRT on Dundas would be a good interim solution east of Hurontario, and a good medium to long term solution west of Hurontario. The Dundas East BRT section would buy the corridor time until Mississauga's current transit priorities (Transitway, Hurontario LRT) can be built, and then the subway can be next on that list. BRT could hold the corridor for the 10-15 years needed to plan the subway extension and build the other priorities.

 

[dunkalunk]

Made some updates:

Some things to note:

I've only included those streetcars with signal priority (light brown) and dedicated ROW (heavy brown). There would be some new track (re)constructed on Parliament, Ossington, Shaw, and Victoria Park Ave to connect to subway stations and transit hubs.

The teal line would technically be an RER-type system based on the technology that'd be used (multiple-car heavy-rail EMUs with overhead power on dedicated mainline track). However, where the lines overlap between Pearson and SCC, the line would operate with subway-type frequencies. All of the existing stops on the Bloor-Danforth and all of the proposed stops in the Murray/Ontario Subway plan would be operational. No, Scarborough is not getting another subway in this plan, but this kind of plan would function almost the same as one and provide a one seat ride between SCC and Downtown. You can call it whatever you want, it's still rapid transit.

For express trips and GO operations, the section of the Stouffville track between Kennedy and Main St would remain operational.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Right now Lakeshore is the corridor that is closest from an infrastructure standpoint to being ready for GO REX. Implement it there first, and then propose GO REX on the Milton corridor, with a spur to MCC. It's easier to sell someone on a concept if they can experience it in action somewhere else.



Good points. In my DRL proposal, it includes an extension to Honeydale for the purpose of a yard, as well as a new transit integrated terminus. This also leaves Bloor-Danforth pretty much on Mississauga's doorstep, within about 1km of the border. This would allow Mississauga to extend the subway on its own timeframe, without too much interference from Toronto, as there would be very little subway in Toronto to build in order to 'bridge the gap' (unlike what York Region is facing, with nearly 2km of subway needing to be built just to get into York Region).

I think that BRT on Dundas would be a good interim solution east of Hurontario, and a good medium to long term solution west of Hurontario. The Dundas East BRT section would buy the corridor time until Mississauga's current transit priorities (Transitway, Hurontario LRT) can be built, and then the subway can be next on that list. BRT could hold the corridor for the 10-15 years needed to plan the subway extension and build the other priorities.

Demonstration always works. My other problem while I put it in my proposal, I don't think Mississauga residents are jumping for the BD right now.


Anyway, a quick DRL mockup.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

Made some updates:

Some things to note:

I've only included those streetcars with signal priority (light brown) and dedicated ROW (heavy brown). There would be some new track (re)constructed on Parliament, Ossington, Shaw, and Victoria Park Ave to connect to subway stations and transit hubs.

The teal line would technically be an RER-type system based on the technology that'd be used (multiple-car heavy-rail EMUs with overhead power on dedicated mainline track). However, where the lines overlap between Pearson and SCC, the line would operate with subway-type frequencies. All of the existing stops on the Bloor-Danforth and all of the proposed stops in the Murray/Ontario Subway plan would be operational. No, Scarborough is not getting another subway in this plan, but this kind of plan would function almost the same as one and provide a one seat ride between SCC and Downtown. You can call it whatever you want, it's still rapid transit.

For express trips and GO operations, the section of the Stouffville track between Kennedy and Main St would remain operational.

Very Nice. I like the massive movement of transit to Scarborough. I think the Bathurst streetcar can go up to the new Eglinton line.

 

[Johnny Au]

denfromoakvillemilton, you should try the key combination of Alt + PrtScn, so that it only selects the active window minus the Firefox toolbars, the tabs, or your taskbar.

 

[denfromoakvillemilton]

denfromoakvillemilton, you should try the key combination of Alt + PrtScn, so that it only selects the active window minus the Firefox toolbars, the tabs, or your taskbar.

Thank You. I will try that next time.