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Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

I don't know if it's feasible to complete any subways in 4 years, as much as Ford would like it to be so.

Toronto has never, ever built a subway that opened less than 8 years after it was formally approved. Even Eglinton, were it truncated such that only the underground portion were built and run with low-floor vehicles, falls in that 8 year timeframe. Approvals and design alone take 3 years. Even in the case of the YorkU extension which has been on the books for 20 years, we're talking 4 years of design and 5 of construction.

If there is a Sheppard extension, by the end of Ford's term we will be holding open houses over hypthetical station design, and the ink would still be drying on the TBM contract.. Which puts it in approximately the same position TC is in now, perfect for the next wave of politicians to cancel the gravy-trains to nowhere.

Of course, they will only be starting the updated EA when Hudak cancels everything - something distinctly less likely if the project is already half-completed.
 
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I think people are giving Hudak far too much credit. Unless of course the Liberals take over Ottawa. Then I would worry about Ontario falling to the Conservatives.
 
James: A path to transit compromise

Published On Fri Dec 03 2010

By Royson James City Columnist

Mayor Rob Ford wants subways and vows there will be no more rail lines built down the middle of Toronto’s roads.

The province of Ontario, its transportation agency Metrolinx, the TTC and Toronto City Council agreed in 2007 to do what Ford now rejects.

So, is Toronto doomed to a decade — or at least four years under Ford — of transit stall? Or is there room for compromise?

To reach a reasonable conclusion, read between the lines, listen to the carefully crafted words, understand the politics, and recall the history of transit decision making. It all points to a rescue plan, six months to a year hence — if all goes well.

Just what is Ford saying? First, he wants new transit only where it doesn’t replace existing lanes of traffic. Toronto isn’t building more highways and more roads. So, to co-exist, transit must go under or over or around, just not exclusively on the existing streets. If that view holds, suddenly, SkyTrain and other elevated transit becomes part of the future, though Ford talks subway.

Secondly, Ford says he wants a subway to Scarborough. He identifies Sheppard East as his top-priority route, and his transit map envisions the Bloor-Danforth line linking with the Sheppard subway, via a subway along the Scarborough RT route.

But what if fiscal reality sets in, and it certainly will, and neither federal nor provincial government offers to fund his divergent vision? What if all Ford can muster is an extra $1 billion? Then, turning the Scarborough RT into a subway — which it should have been in the first place — allows Ford to win a subway to Scarborough. And it opens the door to save other parts of the Transit City plan.

What is Queen’s Park saying?

First, ignore the statements about how Ford’s views must be in sync with council’s and the TTC’s before the province even considers them. Of course. And they will. The TTC will be reconstituted next week and Ford followers will have the majority vote.

Since council approves all budgets, city council will have a say. But council will not stop a “study†of subway options. The Scarborough councillors will line up behind Ford, all the time claiming they are doing their due diligence.

What Queen’s Park supposedly wants is a regional plan that benefits and links Toronto, via the GO network and other transit systems, to the rest of the GTA and Hamilton. As such, the Eglinton Crosstown line is untouchable. It eventually runs west to the airport and east to near Durham, linking with GO lines along the way.

Fortunately, there is room for compromise here, too. There is no quarrel with the portion of the Eglinton LRT that runs between Black Creek Dr. and east of Bayview. It runs underground as a subway. Metrolinx official said Friday the tunnel will be big enough for conventional subway trains, should that be the use in the future, beyond 2031.

But for Eglinton to fulfill its regional mandate it must go east and west beyond the underground segment. Can it be elevated, once it reaches Scarborough and west in Etobicoke? There is even enough room west of Royal York for it to run off-street.

So, a great transit compromise is possible, solving the potential stalemate.

One, salvage Eglinton, even if it means removing it from the middle of the street. (By the time construction reaches beyond the underground portion, Ford might no longer be mayor.)

And two, build a subway to replace the RT. Ridership on the RT is the closest to subway levels for any of the Transit City light rail routes.

Ford gets his subway. The province gets Eglinton.

Sheppard and Finch? Sacrifices made.

Later: why the “jelly-ike†TTC brass can live with such a plan
 
Well Ford does have a point. If the roads are already congested with busses in mixed traffic, how worse would it get by cutting off 2 lanes for a streetcar.
 
Well Ford does have a point. If the roads are already congested with busses in mixed traffic, how worse would it get by cutting off 2 lanes for a streetcar.

In almost all cases, the design for Transit City routes does not result in a reduction of traffic lanes.
 
In almost all cases, the design for Transit City routes does not result in a reduction of traffic lanes.
I thought they all did. Please elaborate.
 
I thought they all did. Please elaborate.

The only major change for cars was that there would be less opportunity to turn left with the LRT tracks installed. Almost all the locations where the LRT would run at the surface are in ROWs wide enough to have no reduction in traffic lanes, and the cross sections of the roads which are available online show no reduction planned in most locations. There are a few locations where there are six lanes often not a major issue since it is near locations where the streets are already only four lanes. All the places the LRT went underground were due to ROW width issues that would prevent a minimum of lane lanes from being possible.
 
Eglinton =

1. Only crosstown street in the city which crosses all five boroughs
2. Connects to two potential GO train stops (caledonia, Weston) Sheppard does this (Agincourt, and Chesswood/Downsview)
3. Connects to Eglinton and Yonge a growning Urban Centre Sheppard connects 2 and up to 4 growing urban centres
4. Connects to Pearson Airport
5. Has a central section that even with Bus Only lanes is hindered by traffic from the ALLEN
6. Is more often 4 lanes Versus 6 Lanes
7. Has been in planning / developing stages since before Mike Harris As was Shepperd

Responses in bold
 
Let's see if Karen Stintz can pull off getting both Eglinton and Sheppard. That remains to be seen. I guess it depends how much Ford is willing to pay, if anything.
 
Where did the tunnel boring machines from the existing Sheppard line go to? Why did we have to order new ones for the Spadina extension? I would have thought that the ones used on Sheppard could have been re-used for other future subway lines such as future Sheppard expansion or something else.
 
Where did the tunnel boring machines from the existing Sheppard line go to? Why did we have to order new ones for the Spadina extension? I would have thought that the ones used on Sheppard could have been re-used for other future subway lines such as future Sheppard expansion or something else.

I think they sold them right after Sheppard was finished. Not something that has much use to be sitting around for a decade.
 
I would have thought that the ones used on Sheppard could have been re-used for other future subway lines such as future Sheppard expansion or something else.
I don't think the Spadina TBMs are the same diameter. We'd be stuck with having to pay $ to store the things that may never be used again. Much better to liquidate them for whatever value they had left.
 

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