Transit City: Sheppard East Debate

[EnviroTO]

In order to construct the bridge while keeping the road and rail line open they will need to shift the line to a new alignment which means if they are going to double track this section and Agincourt station this will be the time to do it... otherwise they will end up building new temporary platforms at Agincourt and a wasteful temporary rail bridge. In order to keep the road and rail line open it will need to be done in quarters shifting the road to the north and south lanes and the rail from a future east and west alignment as work progresses.

I wonder if they are going to go with a center platform or side platforms. If they go with side platforms they are probably going to need to take away a bit of the backyards of some of the houses on Agincourt Drive.

 

[drum118]

In order to construct the bridge while keeping the road and rail line open they will need to shift the line to a new alignment which means if they are going to double track this section and Agincourt station this will be the time to do it... otherwise they will end up building new temporary platforms at Agincourt and a wasteful temporary rail bridge. In order to keep the road and rail line open it will need to be done in quarters shifting the road to the north and south lanes and the rail from a future east and west alignment as work progresses.

I wonder if they are going to go with a center platform or side platforms. If they go with side platforms they are probably going to need to take away a bit of the backyards of some of the houses on Agincourt Drive.

I will have to post the photo's I shot a few weeks ago of the station.

GO going to have to buy land on the east side to get a centre or side platform in for a 2nd track at the station as there not enough room there now.

The existing platform and station can be move to the west as there is room there.

Not having that 2nd track in place when the bridge is built is not a big deal as it will be there when the needs for it comes.

The tracks is supposed to be shift to east during construction.

 

[Mike in TO]

Small Update:

• The TTC got the green light from council to acquire a series of properties related to the Sheppard East LRT line.
• The lands are required to construct a grade separation at the Agincourt GO Station, which will ultimately accommodate construction of the LRT line.
• The TTC will acquire 7 Reidmount Avenue, 5 Agincourt Drive and 4061, 4080, 4091, 4125, 4142 and 4156-4158 Sheppard Avenue East.
• Acquisition of the portions of the properties was previously approved, but the lands required from each site have changed and the city now seeks to expropriate the sites.

 

[Ansem]

Small Update:

• The TTC got the green light from council to acquire a series of properties related to the Sheppard East LRT line.
• The lands are required to construct a grade separation at the Agincourt GO Station, which will ultimately accommodate construction of the LRT line.
• The TTC will acquire 7 Reidmount Avenue, 5 Agincourt Drive and 4061, 4080, 4091, 4125, 4142 and 4156-4158 Sheppard Avenue East.
• Acquisition of the portions of the properties was previously approved, but the lands required from each site have changed and the city now seeks to expropriate the sites.

and the disaster begins

 

[hkric88]

Amen.

It's going to be a sad few decades for Toronto.

 

[Dan416]

How's this for wording a Sheppard East cancellation petition:

We petition the city of Toronto, the Province of Ontario and the Government of Canada to cancel the Sheppard East LRT immediately and in its place proceed with the extension of the Sheppard subway in both directions to Downsview in the west and Scarborough Town Centre in the east.

 

[Second_in_pie]

Hmm, I'd reword it just slightly

We petition the City of Toronto, the Toronto Transit Commission, the Province of Ontario and the Government of Canada to cancel the Sheppard East LRT immediately, and in it's place continue construction of the Sheppard Subway west to Downsview and East to Scarborough Town Centre.

EDIT: You might want to consider saying "cancel construction of the Sheppard East LRT immediately," and "proceed with the extension of the Sheppard subway as originally planned, West to Downsview and East to Scarborough Town Centre."

 

[Ansem]

Hmm, I'd reword it just slightly



EDIT: You might want to consider saying "cancel construction of the Sheppard East LRT immediately," and "proceed with the extension of the Sheppard subway as originally planned, West to Downsview and East to Scarborough Town Centre."

That would be great for a petition.

We should organize to make it happen.

1-Create a thread for the petition
2-People sign up
3-We establish shifts and locations
A)York University (Because of the Bus 196B) I volunteer, I live 10 min away from there
B) Downsview Station
C)Bathurst-Sheppard
D)Sheppard Station, Both Plateforms+Sheppard Station
E)Don Mills Station
F)Agincourt GO Station
G)Scarborough Center
H)Other Station to be added.

4-Online Petition

5-Establish a deadline to get as many signature as possible before the beginning of the municipal election.
We should aim for a number so high that they wont be able to ignore us.

6-We give alternatives and suggestions (media always ask those type of questions)

7-Arguments
-potential growth
-unifying the city
-Better network
-That the Sheppard subway as it is has more ridership than at least 5 of Chicago' subway with 3 times the size and stations.
-Why connecting STC to NYC is less important than York...

8-Submit to Metrolinx, City Hall


Makes sense?

 

[Second_in_pie]

Makes sense. I'm willing to help all I can

 

[Ed Drass]

Amen.

It's going to be a sad few decades for Toronto.

Except for the sad few decades that we just finished. Is it so easy to forget what it was like to have virtually no investment for 20 years?

I understand that some feel LRT is inadequate, and that subways are the way to go for much of the turf that Transit City covers.
Maybe if I had not lived through the decades-long transit drought I might feel that way too. It was a sobering experience trying to promote better transit in the 90s. Most politicians thought transit advocates were naive and without political understanding – i.e., trains and buses are lame and everyone drives -- or secretly wants to. How did this mentality shift or tip in favour of ending the transit drought?
Having been through that, I am nowhere close to buying in to the political argument for building Sheppard TC as subway, let alone the capacity/cost arguments. In isolation, it's not ridiculous though.
If you want to advocate for better transit, thinking strategically involves more than excellent organizing skills. For one, who are your allies and opponents? How does a Sheppard-centric campaign affect other projects?

Even if stopping Sheppard TC is just musing, you may tick off the people working for the next set of projects. You’d have to do your homework really well to persuade some (like me) that there is enough money to convert Sheppard (+ Finch & Eglinton?) TC lines to subway AND build DRL. It could also threaten the rest of TC, even designed as LRT. Maybe there'd be enough cash and political will left over for Bus Transit City...
Pushing for more subway lines would need serious grassroots organizing, the beginning of which is indicated by the outline given above.
So why unnecessarily alienate the (somewhat ;^) older generation of transit advocates for whom a board like this would have been a dream 10 years ago? The people who were around then would have some interesting reactions to this campaign…
These are individuals and organizations with some understanding of the political machinations at City Hall and Queen’s Park, who are familiar with transit issues and who may have a bit of useful experience to share.
Sure, you can go it alone – but why bother? It takes a lot of unpaid hours to build support, so take care before heedlessly discarding potential supporters. -ed

 

[Dan416]

Okay so far it's looking like this, with a few changes I incorporated.

We the undersigned petition the City of Toronto, the Toronto Transit Commission, the Province of Ontario and the Government of Canada to cancel construction of the Sheppard East LRT immediately, and in it's place proceed with the extension of the Sheppard Subway as originally planned East to Scarborough Town Centre, and in addition west to Downsview to connect with the Spadina Subway to create a true northern crosstown subway route to supplement Bloor-Danforth and connect two Urban Growth Centres (North York Centre and Scarborough City Centre) under the Ontario Places to Grow initiative.

 

[scarberiankhatru]

Fighting to cancel a project is one thing, but fighting to get what you want built instead is much harder. Sheppard may end up with just gradually better bus service and 'nothing' else for an unknown number of years. For some corridors, anything is better than nothing (corridors like Eglinton or Finch West or Dufferin, where the existing bus service can hardly be improved), but would 'nothing' be so bad for Sheppard? A Sheppard subway extension is not the city's top transit priority, and the recent EA is quite clear in stating that LRT won't be a bit improved over the existing buses.

Toronto went through a period of bad decisions and limited funding but that does not change the fact that the Sheppard LRT is a mindnumbingly silly project to prioritize and a stupendous waste of a billion dollars with no foreseeable benefits.

 

[Dan416]

I think that's a good point, scarberian, but if the petition said to just cancel the Sheppard East LRT and didn't provide an alternative, then I think we'd be regarded as NIMBYs. This isn't about NIMBYism, it's about doing what is right. Sheppard needs fixing, not screwing. In that vein, I added a Willowdale station to my Fix Sheppard map and probably way more stations than are needed (but comparable to Bloor-Danforth I think).

 

[drum118]

Okay so far it's looking like this, with a few changes I incorporated.

Never going to happen.

Unless you can find extra funds not connected to Move2020 to build the subway, the Government will not cover the extra cost nor stop it.

Metrolinx will say the same thing as they are going to look at things that will get the big bang for the buck on the cheap side. I'm sure some of these TC lines would have been BRT if certain people in Mextrolix had their way.

 

[nfitz]

Small Update:

• The TTC got the green light from council to acquire a series of properties related to the Sheppard East LRT line.
• The lands are required to construct a grade separation at the Agincourt GO Station, which will ultimately accommodate construction of the LRT line.
• The TTC will acquire 7 Reidmount Avenue, 5 Agincourt Drive and 4061, 4080, 4091, 4125, 4142 and 4156-4158 Sheppard Avenue East.
• Acquisition of the portions of the properties was previously approved, but the lands required from each site have changed and the city now seeks to expropriate the sites.

Great news! The NIMBYs can't stop this now!